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Show I J SHALL WE HAVE GREATER l(j -1AVY OR SAVE THE MONEY I Senators Put in a Day Discussing the Proposition I as to Whether a Greater Sea Power Insures I Peace or Whether it Courts War. II "WASHINGTON. March 5. There was J ' an Interesting exchange of views Sn the 4 j Senate today between Mr. Nelson and Mr. Hale. The Minnesota Senator in, k 1 the course of a brief colloquy with Mr. I Patterson concerning features of the I naval appropriation bill expressed the ( I opinion that there Is such a common-Si common-Si allty of interests on the part of the t 9 United State?, Great Britain and Japan I as to protect China, against dlsmem-I dlsmem-I berment. To this statement Mr. Hale, K In chargo of the bill, objected sharply, ; '! saying that the portion of the United 1 States In the present Oriental war is that of neutrality, and that ho could not allow to go unchallenged any statement ' j in the Senate Indicating a national In-j In-j tcrest In either Russia or Japan. Mr. Nelson responded by saying Mr. Hale had indicated as great partiality for Russia as he had expressed for Japan. ' The naval bill again occupied prac tically all of the time of the Senate, but .Trhlle the amendment concerning a naval na-val training station on the great lakes , "was technically the pending question, it -was scarcely mentioned. The discussion 1 today was entirely on political Hues and was participated in by Messrs. Hale, De-pew De-pew and Nelson on. the Republican side and by Messrs. Gorman, Clay, Martin Patterson and Bacon on the Democratic side. Consideration of the naval bill was not . completed when the Senate adjourned. H'! At the opening of the Senate Mr. Cullom presented the report of the Conference committee on the legls-latlve, legls-latlve, executive and Judicial approprl-jHi approprl-jHi atlon bill and it was agreed to. (1 The naval appropriation bill was taken up and the discussion Immedl-ately Immedl-ately took on a political aspect. MR. CLAY STARTS THE BALL. ft , Mr. Clay took issue with the conten- , tlons of Messrs. Iodge and Depew as W j to the necessity for a strong lighting W sea force to keep the United States out J , of war. F tl . Mr. Clay also contended that there if, Should be a Congressional committee to J lnvestig-ate expenditures in the depart-I depart-I W ments, saying that no business man Lj would let business involving millions A drift along as Congress was doing. He ' criticised the policy that led to the ex- pendltures of $207,000,000 annually for I ' war and refused to erect public bulld- , lngs In Washington that would save H rents of $300,000 per year. , I Mr. Martin (Dem.), a member of the Committee on Naval Affairs', defended the bill. W WWc must have a strong navy," he saidi. and he Instanced the recent ex-panon ex-panon of' the United States as fur- JJlshlwe the reason for this necessity. - Httr-feferrcd to the possibility of 1 France and Great Britain being drattn into the Oriental war because of their respective alliance with Russia and J Japan, and while he did not believe that the United States would become Involved he did not consider it the part of wisdom to be unprepared. Mr. Depew spoke of the policy of expansion ex-pansion and Mr. Patterson Inquired whether he meant that further aggrandizement ag-grandizement through conquest or pur-! pur-! chase of foreign territory would be the i programme of thl? Government. ""I do not think we will evnr see the time when we will need more tcrrl-iry," tcrrl-iry," said Mr. Depew, "but I do think we will get a merchant marine some time and I mean that we will want a navv big enough to protect it. I mean that 1 hope Secretary Hay's programme for an open door In China will continue to be the policy of this Government and that wo should have a navy big enough to enforce it." ALL EUROPE ARMING. Mr. Depow predicted that In the end Mr. Chamberlain would succeed In the programme laid out by him In Great Britain. Other European nations would be fotmd taking steps to protect themselves them-selves against us and a navy would be I needed. He said that whichever side was victorious in tho Eastern war the United States must be consulted and this country would Insist on having her interests considered before China could lie divided up. A great navy would bo riGcc-scary at such a time. Replying to Mr. Patterson, he said he vld not think it would be necessary to ijgxD to war to maintain our interests In the Orient. ""Why axe the olher powers now accepting a very unpopular note M from us?" he asked. L'.a Mr. Patterson called attention to the Pjm report that the note to Russia and Ja- tfyS pan had been Incited by Germany, fify Mr. Nelson replied to Mr. Patterson's Sfl questions concerning our naval iniiu- t a ence in the East, saying that, with thin 1 country. Great Britain and Japan nil united In support of an open door in ifl China, there was no danger of the dls- m memberment of Chirm. All. too. were S hostile to the absorption of Manchuria. I He did not believe there was any formal alliance, only mutuality of Interest. Mr. Halo protested that this debnte was extraneous "I do not want the statement of the Senator from Minnesota Minne-sota to go unchallenged," he said. "I do not agree that there is today any Buch common Interest between the United States, Great Grltaln and Japan, on tho one side against Russia, France and other powers, as his statement implies-. Our attitude Is one of neutrality, and so declared by our Slate department. depart-ment. The statement that we have a common interest with Japan and Great Britain as to Manchuria 1 can't let go without a statement. We are not against jilpan, nor must It bo said that nil our interests are with her and against Russia Rus-sia and other continental European powers." Ho said that if Japan should And herself successful in her present war the United States would find hcr-?-At In more danger In commercial matters mat-ters from that ambitious power than any other. He (Hale) considered the Oriental Orien-tal trade as of comparatively little Importance. Im-portance. If we had not been Involved with predatory nations In Invading China oven the Chinese Boxero would have protected our Interests In China. He was not liv favor of any policy that . involved us In the expense, In the enor- 5 movei- wlckcdnesa of these wars so far Bj away from our shores. Wf NOT INSPIRED BY GERMANY. " Resuming his speech, Mr. Depew dc- ( nled that the Hay note hud been ln- l Bpired by Germany. lie spoke of It as a J rVyJlatlon, and said that the Denver News must have direct Marconi communication com-munication with the palace at Potsdam. Mr. Patterson replied that the statement state-ment had been carried by the Associated Prccs, as Mr. Depew should have known, If a general reader of tho newspapers. news-papers. Continuing, Mr. Depew sold that Mr. Nelson openly had expressed his partiality par-tiality for Japan, while Mr. Halo almost as plainly had Indicated his leaning toward to-ward Russia. As for Mr. Patterson, he had manifested the usual Democratic tendency towards expediency by standing stand-ing ready to take advantage of the situation, sit-uation, whichever side might win. Ho agreed with Mr. Halo as to the wisdom of Mr. Halo's attitude, "but," ho said, "the fact rc-malns that every man, woman wo-man and child is lined upon one side or the other, as they are whenever there Is a fight." He added that the President's proclamation announces our ofllcial attitude, at-titude, but said that behind that wo can say what we please as individuals Mr. Depew defended President Roosevelt Roose-velt against the charge of impetuosity and recklessness, saying that if he had had the disposition to make tTouble ho could have found it in the Canadian dispute. dis-pute. "A less wise man would have seen and seized the opportunity to appeal ap-peal to the popular sentiment," he said. "Instead of doing this, the President had appealed to arbitration, and In view of tho resolution we owe him a lasting debt of gratitude for the wisdom and patriotism pa-triotism displayed." Mr. Depew said he had been appointed Minister to Japan thirty-eight years tgo, and that In those thirty-eight years Japan Ja-pan had progressed as much as Europe had progressed in tho last COO years. If her contest with Russia was to be on the land Japan would be nowhere, but the fight must be on the sea, and the result could not be foretold. Mr. Gorman congratulated Mr. Hale on his conduct of naval legislation in the Senate. He reviewed the growth of the navy, saying that when Mr. Whit-ney Whit-ney took charge of the Navy department It was In very bad condition, but notwithstanding not-withstanding the Republicans were In the majority In tho Senate, it had not been necessary to mako a second appeal either to Mr. Hnle or Mr. Allison. Up to tho present time there had been no division on party lines. As for himself he always had expressed his sentiments freely, without regard to party lines. He criticized Mr. Moody as Imprudent in charging the Democratic party with partisanship because of his (Mr. Gor-mun's) Gor-mun's) attitude. Ho had spoken for himself In saying the Administration was advancing too rapidly and had gone too far In tho increase of the navy. "Executive "Ex-ecutive officers," said Mr. Gorman slowly slow-ly and with deliberate emphasis, "would serve their country better if they attended at-tended to the details of their ofTlces and abstained from criticism of Senators and members of Congress." BIG NAVY MEANS PEACE. Mr. Gorman thon gave his attention to the statement of Mr. Lodge that a large navy was a conservator of peace, saying that this declaration was contrary to the conviction of the fathers. He differed dif-fered from Mr. Lodge In considering this an aggressive nation. He hoped the time would soon come when the people would return to the Democratic-Republican doctrine that our power was not measured by the number of guns afloat, nor by the number of uniforms we had. He would not have a Republican or a Democratic navy, but an American navj and ho would have the credit given to the men who fight the battles, as was done In the case of Perry, and not liavo them sent to the rear and humiliated hu-miliated for their very achievements. CRY OF EXTRAVAGANCE. "If we were at war," said Mr. Gorman, Gor-man, "If our commerce were threatened by war, we would give tho Secretary of the Navj' all that he could spend. But, all the country knows that these millions, mil-lions, these billions, have done more to demoralize than otherwise." Extravagance Extrava-gance had been the inevitable result, and a war with Spain Involving only two days In motion, had cost the country coun-try a billion dollars. He had no sympathy sym-pathy with any movement against China. No matter what nation might secure supremacy In thnt country the United States would secure Its share of its commerce. He said that every American had gloried In the part taken by the United States In the Boxer uprising, up-rising, and that if that example were, to bo followed it would do more than any number of ships to Improve our commerce. Mr. Carmack referred to Mr. Depew's defense of tho retention of the Philippine!? Philip-pine!? and quoted a prevldus utterance by that Senator taking an opposition position. Mr. Depew arose, saying: "That Chauncey Depew Is dead. I was not then a Senator, but simply a New Yorker making speeches almost every night, and giving very little thought to them." After studying the question he had changed his views. Ho originally had been a Democrat, and hlB first Impressions Impres-sions were generally Democratic. "The difference between the Senator's position then and now," replied Mr. Cnrmack, "is, that not being a Senator, ho was considering the cusc as a patriot, pa-triot, and had not Liken the case as a criminal lawyer to defend the Republican Repub-lican party." Mr. Carmack agreed with Mr. Hale that If China should fall under the domination of Japan It would be very doubtful whether the United States would derive any advantngo from It. Mr. Carmack read an extract from a newspaper, saying $-135,000 ha1 been expended ex-pended for the purpose of keeping the two pleasure yachts, the Mayflower and the Sylph, In condition for the Presidents Presi-dents use. This, he contended, was a misappropriation. Mr. Nelson took the floor to reply to Mr. Hale who, he said, had taken him to task for violating the principles of neutrality because he had said that our commercial Interests were common to those of Japan. "And," he went on, "In the same breath In which ho criticised criti-cised me he called attention to the danger our commerce was In from 'am-bltuous 'am-bltuous Japan.' I submit that if there was any violation of the principles of neutrality on my part, there was an equally marked violation by him." Mr. Nelson said that he had not Intended In-tended to Imply that tho United States should not take any other than a neutral neu-tral position in the Oriental war, for he held no such position. He did contend, however, that wo should take all proper steps to protect our commerce in the Orient, and he thought the navy should be adequate to that service. The amendment proposed by Mr. Quarles to the committee amendment for a naval station on the great lakes was then taken up. Mr. Hopkins moved to lay It on the ta.ble. That motion was voted down. The amendment to the amendment was accepted and the original orig-inal amendment as amended was agreed to. The naval bill was then laid aside. Mr. Foraker gave notice that on Thursday, March 31st, he would ask the Senate to consider resolutions of respect for the late Senator Hanna. At 5:35 p. m. the Senate adjourned. In the House. WASHINGTON, March 6. The House today passed the Indian appropriation appro-priation bill after some controversy relative rel-ative to some provisions affecting tribes in tho Indian Territory. An unsuccessful un-successful effort was made by Mr. Stephens of Texas to eliminate the provision pro-vision for continuing the Dawes commission com-mission another year. |