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Show : ' I 1 Controversial Dialogue Between a Presbyterian and His Catholic Brother, Leading Up to Former's Conversion. j , j The discussion of faith between John Milwood, Catholic lawyer, and James Milwood, Presbyterian clergyman, i broke off in the dialogue last week at j a point where the two brothers were 1 arguing the necessity or option of be- ; lief in non-essentials as well as in cs- ' etntials, the Presbyterian contending that belief in essentials is sufficient and ; orthedox and differences about nonessentials non-essentials wrought no harm to faith th.ough revelation. The Catholic re-j plied that our doctors distinguish be- ; tv. een the articles of the creed which are secondary, but they do not teach that faith in the primary alone suffices J for salvation. They teach that the , whole must be believed, either explicit- ly or implicitly, and simply add that j explicit faith in the primary articles, j with implicit faith in the secondary, is i all that is necessary. This week's in- j stallment begins with a query in reply, directed by James, the Presbyterian. Editor Intermountain Catholic III. "But do you pretend that everything, every-thing, however unimportant or insignificant, insig-nificant, is essential to be believed?" "Your faith, not mine, is the matter in question." "As a Catholic, you are bound to hold that the book of Tobias is the word of j God. In that book 1 read that Toby had a dog, and that the dog came to his master wagging his tail. Is it essential es-sential to your salvation, that you believe be-lieve with a firm faith that Toby really real-ly had a dog, and that the dog actually actual-ly did wag his tail?" "That is not precisely the question. Assuming the inspiration of the book, can you deny the fact without essential essen-tial error?" "Why not? Common sense teaches us that the fact is not and cannot be in itself ess?ntial." "And do you hold that there can be ts ential error only where the matter denied is in itself essential?" "How can there be?" "What, in religious or divine faith, is the immediate object believed?" "The truth of the particular proposition, proposi-tion, whatever it may be." "Xot exactly; for the faith is religious relig-ious only where the proposition believed be-lieved is a revealed proposition." "The truth of the particular revealed proposition, then, whatever it may be." "In believing, does the mind perceive per-ceive the truth of the proposition believed, be-lieved, or only the proposition itself?" "Explain yourself." "What Is faith, as distinguished from knowledge or science?" "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seeen." "Or, as says St. Augustine: 'Fides est credere quot nonvides' Faith is to believe what you do not see. But you must see or mentally apprehend the proposition, or you cannot assent to it. What, then, is that in the proposition propo-sition which you assent to, but which you do not see?": "The truth of the proposition." "As in the proposition, 'God exists in unitv of essence and trinity of persons,' per-sons,' you distinctly, and immediately apprehend the proposition, but not its truth: otherwise, it would be a proposition, prop-osition, not of fajth, but of knowledge or science knowledge, if perceived intuitively; in-tuitively; science, if perceived only by means of discursion. Hence rationalists, ration-alists, when they -refuse to believe the mysteries of faith because they cannot can-not immediately: perceive their truth, deny, virtually, the possibility of faith, and fall iato the absurdity of contending that they cannot have faith unless it be knowledge or science; that is, they cannot have faith unless faith be impossible! Where there is sight, there is not faith.. Hence we say, faith will lose itself in sight, hope he swallowed swal-lowed in fruitionbut charity abideth forever. I Immediately perceive the propositions of faith, or the credenda; but not their intrinsic truth. Therefore, There-fore, the truth of the revealed proposition proposi-tion cannot be that which is immediately imme-diately believed or assented to." "So it would seem." "If it is not immediately believed, it must be mediately believed; that is, must be believed in something else, on or by some authority at least formally distinct from itself." "That must be true; for faith is always al-ways by some authority distinct from the believer and the proposition believed." be-lieved." "Then the immediate object believed will be, not the intrinsic truth of the proposition, but this authority in, on 1 or by means of which it is believed?" ! "Be it so." ' "Now. in religious faith, what is this?" ! "The Bible, as all Protestants contend, con-tend, in opposition to Romanists, who say it is the Church." j "Catholics do not say the Church is ; the authority for believing the truth of the revealed proposition, but simply 1 for believing it is a revealed proposi- ; tion; and, if you reffect a moment, you must admit that the Bible is at 1 best only authority for believing this or that is revealed, not authority for j believing that what is revealed is true." j "We recognize no authority above the j Bible." "Then you place the Bible above God himself, which I own is what you 1 tion; and, if you reflect a moment, have the appearance of doing; but this I cannot be your meaning. All you can ! mean is. that, in determining what God 1 has revealed, the Bible is the highest authority for determining. But the Bible, although assumed to be the highest authority lor determining what Cod has revealed, is yet no authority for saying what he reveals is true. Why who call yourselves Protestants often through the Bible is true?" "Because it is his revelation, his word." "That is, you believe it because God says it. But, in believing it' because God says it, what is it you immediately believe?" "God himself." "That is, you believe the proposition because it is God's word, and you believe be-lieve his word because you believe him. But why do you believe him?" "Because it is impossible for him to lie." "That is, because he is infinitely true, is truth itsr-lf, and can neither deceive nor be deceived?" "I have no objection to that." "Then the object immediately believed, be-lieved, in believing a revealed proposition, proposi-tion, is the infinite truth or veracity of God who reveals it." "Be it so." "Which in religious faith, then, shall we say is the more essential point to be believed the matter revealed, or the infinite veracity of God who reveals it?" "What is the difference?" "The difference, perhaps, will appear, if you tell me what it is that makes the faith religious faith, or distinguishes distin-guishes it, as religious faith, from all other kinds of faith." I "It is religious faith because the proposition, believed, is a revealed proposition." "If I believe the proposition, 'God exists in unity or essence and trinity of persons,' because you teach it or because be-cause I think I have discovered and demonstrated it by my own reason, is my belief religious belief?" j "Why not, since the proposition in either case is the same? What differ- j ence can it make, if it be believed, for I what reason or on what ground it is believed?" "If I believe it because you teach it, I believe you, and what I immediately believe is that you are a man of truth and worthy of credit. Is there anything any-thing religious in my believing you?" "Xot necessarily." "If I believe it because I think I have discovered and demonstrated it by my own reason, I simply believe my own reason. Is to believe my own reason rea-son religious belief?" "Certainly not." "For, if it were, ever"- beJ'ef, whether intuitive or Scientific, would be religious, relig-ious, and the belief of falsehood as much as truth: since, in every act of belief, whether the belief be well founded found-ed or not, I believe my reason. But if I believe the proposition, not because you teach it, not because I discover or demonstrate it by my own reason, but because God says it, and therefore because be-cause I believe him, and that he is infinitely in-finitely true, and can neither deceive me nor be deceived, and. furthermore, because he commands me to believe it, is my act now religious?" "It is." "Then it would seem that it is believing be-lieving and obeying God. which makes the belief religious belief?" "That appears to be so." I "Then the more essential point in religious re-ligious belief is not simply belief of the matter revealed, but of God who reveals re-veals it?" "Very well, let it be so." (To Be Continued.) : . . l |