|Paper||Salt Lake Herald-Republican|
|Rights||No Copyright - United States (NoC-US)|
|Publisher||Digitized by J. Willard Marriott Library, University of Utah|
|Article Title||More of the Credit Mobilier|
|Paper||Salt Lake Herald-Republican|
MORE OF THE CIIEDIT HOJULIElt. Curlout Inside BevUHon. The following lengthy extracts from the Wanhintttoo correspondent of the ( Chicago Trit-uuo, the writer being "Gath" or George Alfred T.jwoacud will be found more than ordinary i interesting at this juncture : WArtUiNoxoM, January lil, l--7i. The following interview 1 was f.r-bidden f.r-bidden to print unul the Credit Mo-biin:r Mo-biin:r committee fth-mld have votteu wll through their W'-rlc. I do ao now of my own renponsibili'y. Tiie miunf ii a njuin on thu tLlrd lloor of Wilbrd's hotel. Tini'i, 'J o'clock p.m. Preterit, "Giith," -pan.-utly not hearing anyilnug, and colonel M'lJomh, unusually coujiuuui-eativn. coujiuuui-eativn. i'-t tin: tirtt uiu. What kind of mm U KlwIi.'i';.1, colonel M'Coinb 'Well, you heard IJihIidcII testify to-day abjut uicuibers ofeonnreus not havag moral pluck to hold their stock, ,V.!. liuihnell gave his cheek for jlJj.OMJ for '3M shares of Credit Mo bilier. He had no account, or at any rate, no fundi, in tho bank on which the cheek was given; aud it being aortal tied that uch was the cane, hi.-t eh'rck remained tor two years unpaid in the tn anury of tho company. Mr. liu.iliQtrll collected all tho dividends on the stock, as if he had paid for it, and got his stock and bonds on tho Union I'acilie, The rcaHon is, that he is looked upon as a dangerous tool ot Amts, Alley and Lillon, and they were afraid to get him ou: of the road. More than this, the books ehow that ho lias made away with over $-luu,UW of their first mortgago bonds and never uccounted for them, benides $11,000 worth of ccrlitioates for government bondH." "You heard tho testimony, colonel M'Oomb, of Mr. Ourant, where he -hum that .Tames Harlan, of Iowa, gut two checks of $.'t,(XiO apiece, while secretary of tho interior, to eleot him a United States senator. Is that all the money he received." "1 cannot speak about that. You will find upon inquiry that ho has got as muoh as SiiO.UUO ; but Durant is a generous, impulsive fellow, and ho let up. You have scon that Mr. Harlan, in his newspaper, has been saying lor several days that tho Credit Mobilier investigation will produce no healthy effect, ought to bo stopped, is injuring tho Republican party, etc Tho oom-mittoo oom-mittoo failed to got all tho points on Mr. Harlan." "Colonel M'Comb, can you givo me any idea of those who put any cash in the Union Paoitio railroad in tho first place?" "Yes sir; tho largest sum of money was given by Thomas C. Durant, in quantity $ iy0,0U0. Tho next sum was contributed by Oliver Ames, $250,0UU. Two persons gavo $150,000 each, namely: John X)ulT and Oakes Ames. Tho sum of $100,000 was contributed by each of the following parties: U. H. McCormiok, Benjamin K. Bates, Jo-Hah Jo-Hah Bard well, Bushnell and Henry 8. McComb. Mr. Hooper, of Boston, put in $50,000; Mr. Urimos, $25,000; Mr. Alley, $W,000; and Mr. James Brooks, $10,000." "What did your $100,000 turnout?" "By going into the construction company, and giving my time for several seve-ral years, as wo 11 as my $100,000, to the work, I camo out several hundred per cent, ahead." Aoooruing to your statement, uu-ver uu-ver Ames put down his money very liberally for Union Paoifio stock; do you consider him a bettor man than Oakes Ames?" "Much better, sir. I think, his countenance shows that. He has some sensibility and personal character, in which, in my judgment, Oakes Ames is entirely lacking." "Do you think that the Union Pacific Paci-fic can ovor bo mado to occupy as orcditable a rank financially as tho Central Pacific?" "Not under tho Ames' oontrol. The policy and the personal character of Oakes Ames and John B. Alloy .will never give their road tho responsibility responsibil-ity which a fair, direct, and sinocro business management oould obtain." "Do you think that Durant would havo done any better had he retained control of tho Union Pacific?" "I do. Had ho been permitted to squander even $5,000,000. and been left to build tho road, we should havo mado about $13,000,000 more than by turning him out, and our stock would now bo at par. Ho is an expensive man, but bis vigor and sagacity would hao pushed on tho work more rnpidly than thoso fellows did it, and his dash would havo attracted capital and admiration." "Do you think thab Durant told tho whole truth about James Brooks?" "JNo; Durant had intended, in my judgment, when bo came here, to ex-poso ex-poso those fellows. Ho has copies of receipts, letters, and all sorts of papers, voluminously, and they are afraid of him. l"'or some timo, no and they did not spak. He came to mo just after he arrived here, and said, 'Look here, McComb, I will havo to let up on Brooks, or he will go under. He looks hkfl a nnrnsfl nnw. "Has Mr. Urooks,in your judgment, made any vindication, to speak of, of his course, since tho examination began." be-gan." "U hy, no. I havo known all the time that Durant promised Brooks bis stock after he became government director. Durant has told mo so often. Look at the prevarications as to dates in Brooks' account of himself. The date of the receipt which he exhibited in congress was .February 8 or 8, according ac-cording to his statement. The certificate certifi-cate of stock is dated February N eilson 'thought he got1 the money to buy the stock with from Dillon, whom Brooks had just introduced to him. He says ho paid for thoso fifty shares of Credit Mobilier March 3, 1S6S, and got no receipt. Now, when Ham testified, and ho was backed up by the cash-book, we find out that those fifty shares wero not paid for until un-til March 11, The inference is, that, with such a diversity of dates.the whole thing had tho frailty of gotten-up gotten-up ease. Brooks, having denied. before God and congress, that he bad dono anything whatever or got anything in return,now attempts to make it appear that ho had rendered valuable service to tho company beforo he came into congress, and Durant"s testimony is clear that he did his work during his congressional period. Tho actual condition con-dition of things as thoy concern Mr. Brooks will be found thus: Our charter char-ter passed in i$6'2, and was amended in lSti". In 18oo, and Brooks opposed everything we wanted. It was not until Iii5t, when ha had been 'seen,' that he favored every mortal thine that we wanted." "How much has Mr. Brooks got out of tho Union Paeitia railroad altogether?" alto-gether?" "Not less than $300,000, directly and indirectly." "What do you mean by indirectly?" "Weii, ho and Kushucii were ap-pointcd ap-pointcd to sell the telegraph line belonging to the railroad. They did m-Ii it lor $2, 000, wO of stock in the said .vrupany. On this Mr, Brooks mado a Urge amount for conducting the negotiation, and that is one of the t cists which I include in his indirect returns." . - "Coionel McComb, I wouid iike to . ask you a question as a stable business man: Do you justify a member of congress, con-gress, elected by a miscellaneous constituency, con-stituency, in attaching himself to a small c;rce of railroad people, and using h's place mainly to abet tneir designs ?"' "I am not called upon to answer that question, but 1 will do it. I do j not think it honorable for a membor of j conervfs or senator to do underhanded : work so that Oakes Amesuaa wrue such a series of letters as 1 have scowo, speakicg contemptuously of abler aud more honored gentlemen. Toe toae ot Mr. Ames shows eudieteniiy what the most inseosible busiccs citiun has to thick of such congressmen. And the tone of thtir denials is guScient to j show that thecoegr:oBin;n themselves did not wish to ho:d eu:h positions before be-fore their voters. 31 r. Brookd plunged , into an apostrophe to the Deity upon i the ui';re insinuation that he had u-td hio p!ai:e to wori out railroad jobs." "lb; name of senator (j rimes a p-p.ra's p-p.ra's in rrj.; ii-t of ptr? ns who recti v- ' -:d Cr-iit Mooter t-.e to g-:t the divid.":'l-. - Do h-jid IjriUKn to be ad r'-prt-iicjj.-:t: as l.-.e ret .' "liy no u.'rai,'. Mr. Giimes put $25,uj0 iMo the Union Pacific railroad as a capiulUt, in the first place, i think, if yuu examine thu record, you wul find ti;ai t'.- i;l vjr vo'.(-d ior any : LgifclaNon w: wiiutcd to eorjre-s. 11 n ! (.ever tO'k aa active t art in any way ; widi ihs Credit Mobihvr, aLd nover j attended a mee'irv- U b o he sent i order for divid -ud", hu did bo right openly, writing iKv orJer. aud nnuiu I Ins own unm '.. 'J'nen: was UOLC of that fumbling aud n-ukiog about him , winch lia-i marked suiuu utLeiy. He ; w:ui always above board, aud X admire his character. '"Colonel McComb, what were the dividends upon credit mol-ilicr stock?" "The dividends w-irc l.luu percent, piior to l-"i'J. lou may calculate them at 1,10U io order to make sueh oral computations as you wUh." "Then Mr. Uiugham's . in vestment would haveyield',d i20,U',"J?" ' Ycr, the stock itself waa worth par when he parted with it, according io Auies. Then he had $05O worth of stock in the Iowa Fails and Sioux City Contracting company, which paid auO percent., making $J,'JH0. Mr. Bingham Bing-ham wa, therelbro, entitled to $j;i,-at, $j;i,-at, dividends on fcU.ooO. For this, an ho swears, Ames gavo him $6,500," ''What do you think of Henry W i'son's explauatioa, colonel McComb?" Mc-Comb?" "Well, as a business man, I do not altogether like Fotufl of tho phrases that Wilson used about going into his olo.-'ct face to tticu with his heavenly Father and accounting for his specula lions. Ho eay.4 that he got his stock in January, 1 fitjl-J, aud parted with it in , November, 1S0S. It was between these two dates that above 400 per cent, dividends wero declared; so Mr. Wilson could not have been so badly off as he says. I don't quite understand, under-stand, us a married man, this making up to one's wife something ihatshe had lost by an investment, and being $soo out of pocket. It may be reasonable rea-sonable enough, but it is novel to mo." "What do you think of the silver-mine silver-mine speculation oi' Bingham and Wilson?" "Well, Wilson says ho lost $1,000 in his silver mine, and Bingham $:t,000. It looks to mo as if Ames and Alley got all tho money of ihcso poor chaps io congress whom they discovered not to possess any business abilities, and, having swindled thorn out of the majority of their dividends in credit mobilier, forthwith began to entrap them into such speoulatians as would lose them tho remainder of the money, I think, if wo could got at the bottom of the thing, the rascality of Ames and Alley would bo found to bo extraordinary." "What do you mean by that.oolouel i McComb?" 1 "Well, I believe, from a business look into tho thing, that Oakes Ames camo to congress lor no other purpose than to do business, just as ho would get elected into tho bourso. While ho was iu congress half-a-dozcn big things were worked out by h;m. There was the Sioux City railroad. Cedar Hapids railroad, the Iowa Falls & Sioux City, the Eastern Division Union Pacific which was better subsidized than the Union Pacific itself, and, finally, the Union Pacific. All thoso things were worked by Oakes AmeB as congressman, and it appears that he not only accomplished these vast jobs, but resorted with Alley to the small gamo of taking the surplus money of tho poor congressmen in his silver mines, eto. A moro unconscionablo business never happened under my observation." "What do you tako to be the relative rela-tive measure of Ames and Alley?" "Alley has got more sense than Ames, at least moro power of expression; expres-sion; bnfh nf tbom wwmJj, aud H would bo hard to say which bad tho least sensibility. Alloy and James W. 8. Williams recently got Alloy's district dis-trict divided, and Alley expected to get the nomination which Goooh has received. He has been defeated, but he still expects to be governor of Massachusetts, Mas-sachusetts, eto. I do not live up there, but I sympathize with Massachusetts Massa-chusetts when this kind of man can bo its governor. Williams, who is to couio hero, has been in the Credit Mobilier and the Uuion Pacific road, and he used to bo tho treasurer of tho laiter." "I understood you to say, colonel McComb, that Ames and Alley would run tho Union Pacifio into the ground if they were to manage it; what do you mean by that ?" ''Why, they havo had to get out of their own road to give its stock any standing. They first put in Mr. Scott, who was reputed to have made $200,-000 $200,-000 by the advanoe in the stock showing show-ing clearly how much more marketable market-able was his nauio than theirs; and now they aro paying Horace. Clark $i.'5,000 or $30,000 a year salary in order to get moro character into their corporation. "What about these persons whom Brooks wanted to testify against you?" "Well, thcro wero two Israelites, manufacturers of army work, to whom I furnished leather, and I sued them for about 140,000. They aro, of course, malignant. Calvin Slado, another an-other peraon whom Brooks referred to, is a person in New York, a speculator with no nominal calling. Lyman Elmore, El-more, whom Brooks mentioned, has been to see me, and says that ho has nothing to testify about." "W hat is tho present position, Col. McComb, of the Credit Mobilier?" "Well, I have still 1,000 shares. Bushnell testified that they wero worth par. Ames and Alley testified that they were worth only five cents on the dollar. Fur myself, I think Lhey would be worth par if those now in control would not steal the assets." "W hat do you mean by the assets?" as-sets?" ';Well, they have got $2,800,000 of Union Pacific income bonds to be divided divi-ded among tho stockholders of tho Credit Mobilier. These have been-frittered been-frittered away by Dillon, Alley, Ames, Ham, etc., as trustees. Tho foregoing bonds bring eighty-four cents. The Credit Mobilier owns, besides, several hundred acres of land around Omaha and Council Blulls, and it has a large claim aaainst the Union Pacific railroad. rail-road. If all these things could be honestly collected, the stock would be worth par." "How many shares have the A mcs, Alley and Dillon party :"' "They have 2u.w0 shares out of'. 37,5i:0." "Colonel M'Comb, what idea did you form of such congressmen as you j have seen explaining their connection : with the Credit Mobilier stock?'' "Well, my idea of the country is a little reduced. To hear Mr. Kelley recount. in such a seif-enjoyiBc manner, j bis personal extremities, acd to hear vice-president Wilson's euriou relation , 01" his incompetency, makes me a little I sick. I think I know what honor is, , but so much sentiment on a smaii sur- ' face one can listen to without com- plaice, and yet with nausea."' j "Coionei M'Comb, what is your ! answer to the attempt made by James , Brooks to connect your suit with judge Barnard's action in the courts of .New York, whereby the present Credit Mobilier Mo-bilier peop;e were cum nelted to pack up their trat s and lto to B '.-ton ? ' "Why, here :e A:i es' L-tters ote dated Juy l?, 10.., wh-re Ai.e-cclcrs Ai.e-cclcrs wi.h 11.C :.&!. t Fiji's suits, phowioc that, a: tl.e uuic, we were iu harmony, li-fc'ssu , ere not broui t uucii th wao.e of Aims' work flail bren done in cotre.-s. acd thee eon-gre.-s.-Len hj.d yo: their ax-ird-." "lou do not ihiijk that ;Le majority of these ,xfor thapj ia CEr--.- lu;!.: to be heid up tost'ia, do you?" " ; "God tortid, as lar as I am con eerned, that they bhould fcuffer anything any-thing in reputation. 'I hey are brought inte publicity by Ames, A-iey and teir eou&seL Just, lojk at this letter and its date. You tee ibat 1 wuu.d not put in the original ot Ames' letters, nor give the names of the cuugreiwuica to 1 whom he referred. On ti.e cmtrary, 10 1 December, 171, I furnished copies ol the letters in my posoc.-sion as portions : i of my bill in equity The deK-u'Jauc's . lawyer was U. C. McMurtrk", of Philadelphia; Phila-delphia; and in May, F?72, he demanded, de-manded, in a lejjal way, the originals of the said leiuri, with the names heretofore refu-ied. My lawyer, Mr-Suiithers, Mr-Suiithers, holds that th touc of Mr. McMurtne's letter indicates that his principals were telliug biui false, and making it appear that Am s' letters were not valid. 1 took the originals to 1 McMunrio'a office, my cL-rk, Mr. j Moore, being with me. I retusc-d to give more than one leuei at a time to Mr. McMurtne, because, as i said to him, The character of the clients which you have wi;l not warrant me in letting thce letters go out of my sight.' Mr. McMurtrie took up the letters, and examined them very closely, close-ly, as if he thought they must be fabricated; fab-ricated; and hence the belief, on the part of my counsel, that Ames and Alley had been byproeruiea! even with their attorney. 1 had ued every energy to conceal the names of the.-o congicss-meu, congicss-meu, and offered to enter into an agreement with Ames to keep them hidden, if he 7.ould only agree to settle my suit, even after I should win it, in the court of Pennsylvania." "Can you give mo a copy of the letter whiob Ames' counsel served upon you, demanding tho production of Ames' original letters? If you can do so, that will show thai you had no hand io miking tho names of these congressmen congress-men public, but that Ames himself compelled the tame. " "Certainly; my cleik will furnish you with the letter." Tho following is a copy of tho letter from A. C. McMurtrie, demanding troin the lawyer of colonel McComb (James E. Gowcn) the originals above referred to: "McComb v$. Credit Mobilier "Philadelphia, Juno 21, 1S72. "Dear Sir, On Thursday, the 23d, you have appointed to close the cross-examination cross-examination of Mr. McComb, and proceed with your evidenco. "Allow me to remind you of promise made by your client at tho prior meeting, meet-ing, many months since, to furnish ot produce the papers or documents fi om oopies of which ho spoke or referred to, or memoranda taken from them. Sorao at least were to bo sent to mo next day; none havo been sent. Ho stated, the other day, they had been withheld for a purpose. I must ask that you require him 0 produce at tho meeting on Thursday, if you desire mo to cross-examine, the following: "Letter from Oakes Ames in reference refer-ence to tho distribution of 345 shares as gifts to mcmbors of congress "His books, showing the original entrieB and dividends, or eums said to have boon received as dividends, April, 1866; July, IS66; September, 1S66; December, I860; and January, 1868, "I would also liko to have Mr. Ames' letter of April 13lh, 1SG7. Very truly, (Signed) R. C. McMurtris. James K. Gowen, Esq." "There," said oolonol McComo, "you sco how the letters of OakeB Ames got out. Ames "would not let me bi silent about them." GiTH.