Show SHORT liNES POSITION i Mr Harriman Explains Purchase Pur-chase of Northern Pacific HOLDINGS WERE SOLD AGAIF At the Interstate Commerce Commission I Commis-sion Hearing Yesterday Mr Harriman I Harri-man Was the Leading Witness anc I His Testimony Was Full of Interest Inter-est as It Deals With the Short Lines Action in Buying Northern Pacific Stock Questioned Closilj About Union Southcrn Pacific Chicago Jan 25 When tho secom days Inquiry by the Interstate Commerce Com-merce commission Into the communHj of Interest combination of the great railways of the Northwest opened today to-day the United States courtroom where the Investigation was held wa crowded with wellknown railway men from all over the country eager tt lear more of the details of the innoi workings of the gigantic Northern Securities Se-curities company Worn the mastoi mind that conceived it E I Harrl 4 man who organized the Southern Pa mnn orgnlz cificUnion Pacific combination and who was Mr Hills opponent In the struggle for the Northern PacificBur llngton control was the first witness T When Mr Jlarrlman went on the stand the line of questioning by W A Diy counsel for the commission led up to tt statement of the great Wall street panic last May when Northern Pacific shares went up to 1000 Mr Harriman testified that the Oregon Short Line aided by the Union Pacific had purchased some 7SOOO000 of Northern Pacific stock and that the Union Pacific through the voice of its directors controlled Ihe Southern Pacific I nile deeloped d thU all this Northern Pacific stock which was held In the name ofE If Harriman and Wlnalow Pierce was sold last summer An effort wus made to learn why thp I purchase had been made only to sell again and this brought from Mr Harrlmon the statement that he was Rind to explain the oCa led contest In the New York stock exchange hlch resulted in the famous Black Thursday Thurs-day dayOREGON OREGON SHORT FINES DEAL I dont think there was any con teat said Mr Harriman Some of usthe Oregon Short Line people thought It would bo advantageous toe to-e an interest I In Northern Pacific and purchased tock that was lying loose all OVT this Country and Europe held by five to seven thousand per I eons We made no contest for 1er1 control of Northern Pacific we purchased I pur-chased a majority of the copiial I stock S Wo purchased priOt the supposed 5 contest and no stock was acquired durIng dur-Ing the panic in May Mr Day tried to show that the l contest r S test for Northern Pacific stock was S the forerunner of the panic on change but Mr Harriman Insisted that such was not the case t Some of the stock he continued wohad bought In markets all over the S world Some of his I was on the way from thCfp various markets to be deS de-S S liverecf borrowed Jn the meantime the sellers 4 S Questions were then put that indicated I indi-cated jobbing had been resorted to In the purchase and which brought S the reply The stock was purchased In New York from persons who boutrht from owners Then when tlH 50fnllod n S contest came the stork concrafted for owners found it difficult to fill their contracts Our Interest In every case gave ho persons all the time they wanted want An attempt was made hy I the commission com-mission to draw out statements to the 5 effect that thc final sale of Northern i Pacific stock by the Oregon ShortS Short-S Lino as controlled by thrj Union Pa clficRouthPrn Pacific syndicate was only after an underslandlng or truce S with Mr Hill and the supposed interests inter-ests that combottcd for Northern Pacific S Pa-cific in the panic SOLD NORTHERN PACIFIC BACK 5 Mr Harrimnn said that after the he and his colleagues S purchase was made 5 leagues thought the matter over again S and they eF thought better to sell again He Implied that it made no difference Imp1ed f really who owned Northern Pacific S Commissioner Prouty asked If you had secured a few more million of Northern Pacific it woxild have made a difference would It not rcnre 5 We could have had II was the S reply S The questions as to Just why Mr Harriman had disposed of hlf Northern Pacific holdings what was lot orS or-S made 1 by ihe transaction nnd whether Mr Hill l had l made some agreement incase sold brought case the holdings were from Mr Harriman the response that natural conditions controlled nturl cordltofi S tHc said he did noll know of any gain made except that his Inierests found out that they were strong enough to hold their own In Pacific traffic He that the Ore said his Impression was gon Short Line had not lost by the transfer He said Mr III11 had been given no assurances of any division of traffic and that the motive of the original purchase had been that of preserving turchn Union Pacific system 5 the avenues oC traffic open to It You wish to represent that no one of the other half of the Northern Pac Pa-c fic interests made any promise in con cfclntore5t trol trolMr Harriman replied INTERESTS ARE COMMONS COMMON-S There Is n common Interest among us all and we believe 1 that common interest In-terest will be served regardless of holdings 5 hold-ings That common Interest can be served by natural conditions Our Interests In-terests are so common that we cannot can-not injure others withOut Injuring ourselves S our-selves 5 S Mr Harriman Insisted that the common com-mon interest oC all systems now affiliated under the Northern Securities company must be considered rather S than the Gocrillcd community of In IprftstKr lie said lIe was a member of of the Securl the board of directors > ties company nnd Mr Hill was Its president but the combination under that company affected rates in nowise 5 Ho told how shortly after the scramble S over Northern Pacific stock Mr Morn Mor-n had been given n proxy by him In order to noil the stock again I wan understood un-derstood the sale was to be effected In 5ash and s curl Isthe latter In I the Northern Securities company If ItS it-S should be organized Mr Harriman eventually controlled about 560000000 l of the slock of this company The question If the formation of the Northern North-ern Securities company and the association asso-ciation of so many roads might Influence In-fluence rates brought f denial I may enable us said Mr HarriS S Harri-S man when brought to tho close together to-gether to eliminate the prevailing distrust S dis-trust aa to the various lines maintaining main-taining traffic rates The complaint S IHS been of too high rates We may bo 5 able to stop the discrimination In rates of ono shipper against another S He stated that this however need not have been done In ouch a cornS corn-S pany The suggestion was made hy tho S commission that this mon might also prevent reduction of published rates by competing roads Ha did not S consider ths company afforded a power of concentration for pooling Other SS S consideration than stockholding larger I con51 0 ing he held Influence rates Ins all the If Mr I Hill or myself owned al Hi I better roads the people would get beter of conditions With a because cndltons rates tho better regulate freer hand we could betcl rCSILe td The prevailing rates to any point plcalns movement of cars etc Influence think com he did not He added that petition HI ever reduced rates more than temporarily lmpomrl of his testimony At the conclusion leRtmn for train Mr Harriman took 1 special lrln New York Mr Hill who was not called again to the l stand wns excused and accompanied accom-panied Mr Harriman OTHERS WHO TESTIFIED George B Harris president of the old GeorSc Burlington companies then and new Burlngton the transfer of tho Chicago testified as to lrans < tcsUOed Railroad cago Burlington it Quincy lairoad companys c Burlngton lo the C 1 B Q Railway company promised to furnish the commission a copy of the nInety ulnoyear lease I of the road and said 11101 none of his conferences with Mr Hill or others had any reference other than to tho general efficiency of the road he said It was the hope of the new company to be able to reduce rates and said Mich reduction would follow only natural conditions He favored fa-vored publicity for all rate transactions S transac-tions Charles S Mellon president of the Northern S Pacific was then called Mr Mellon said his conferences with J J 1 HIM were not mor ftequenl or more potent than those with any other presidents I lmn dents of northwestern roads He said there were no agreements t between the l Northern Pacific and either the Great Northern Union Pacific or Canadian Pacific mads on allotment of traffic or on differentials The Northern Pacific I wns Just as independent In Us management man-agement of affairs as before January I 1902 and that theie hud been no orders dr suggestions a to management from Lbd Northern Securities company or any oflly directors The commission ended UK sitting with Mr Mellcns testimony and took an adjournment ad-journment until Wednesday at Washington Wash-ington D C The further Inquiry into the grain fate situation was put off by reason of the enforced absence of several Kansas City witnesses S |