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Show PV EV Oe oe tgTe PPO ry TEV 10 ~THE sat at their firesides, falta. avian is a ae them ditlons Tf who admit that is that the without had that not been fact in heer respect just P, Worthington. buat to venien you Mr. McCarty. That cris erux who con- before judge the jaw from has situation. Any man judge of the existing inevitably it and must resident, this hele attempts to will | case Mr. the chureh issued that manifesto bidding that the the practice for time had come it to worked itself this remaining finally cover Wards, We tat. we could by 4 for..the, anceh ne cases old. stances of course ing polygamous | have how a of Of} may I did not say ‘ that, b o Ave in my . Deen rw judgment, ; ee. riages Were In this country Have Been Kew er out Plural ‘ Sutherland, Mr. those TI ce under the new ) cover, thing me Are out met arty. Mr. of Yes; Brortiineisn: In the absence objection, permission extracts referred plu- that few,]| Mir. Lyneh they want to é ar- Their away do A. Noon, said: es co Mr. A. Provo, ta : general|of trie. : ° talk more they yee the sta they of it Alberta, in Mexic ov from less-from from and remarks of}they kind, do pose ae it las P. SEER |Mormon people polygamy of late Meakin. tts that T had ane my Knowledge now and gained and again, anything of the to get rid of it. Incubus. Meakin, it was community soe r of and they are young women a They are Gentile, tes- iMate ATWELAE Tala gton. ‘ a as to the feeling of having lived in a Mormon cominunity allo my life; having associuted with them and worked with them--in fact the only peers a most and my an that gone John ; and]ascertained Knowing is resident impressions, casually ae Mr. ot led: Gone. Gentile not Indorse They are glad ac Canada, . t fs view granted. are as fol- opinion with a ve occasionally, as/information are "out eH. Fugitives 2 is to Has Practice. Glad. de- gl McCarty. down N matr- discuss oOo is are ustice? or inks 3 the on the subject of years? Well, I have entered conversations very much with the associated with. with the exception} people, and 1 find that they are all that there were a few Gentiles Inter-| very pleased that polygamy is a thing spersed throughout the entire state-j/of the past; and they welcome the eae cee a great many faAarti from-» the. system, - 1 Marviages, will ew. is rumored few-some Worthington. M the stat o it McCumber. there considerable a REPUBLICAN, SALT LAKE Vice-President. Mr. Booth. Elfe ady referred to, testified as follo "T wish ra ne in that connection that L have among my acquaintances many prominent young Mormons, politiclans and others, about my age and younger, and I have heard many of them say, with great omphasis, that if they believed the church sanctioned any plural the manifesto, they the ehurch anEaS diately: would not contins as members of - the ehureh if ie manifesto should be violated by the officers of the church believe them to be Just as sincere as men can be sincere." Mit TonG; Ly neh, a resident of Salt Lake City, also a Gentile, testified Mr. Van Cott. Whatds your opinion as to the sentiment among young Marmons with respect to the perpetuation of polygamy? we general nee concerned, ne word of justification or "xe . . Sy one honest BeIn uierea, iodemnents man_elther this country or out of Mr. ors well Mr. a wea thease that Very there McCarty. haye been Pretty have been, but I would not be honest with myself nor candid with the senate if} Phere So in any ys ee" Mr. McCarty.. Yes; very fev The|family-our daughters, People contracting them are hostinE around amongst the of know- there whether YS ows: reputation-what to er riages? poly marriages. cases as The is is Monroe. of RY INTER-MOUNTAIN ,of a dozen or more a AS Mr. Worthington. ho eae Shere that since een in-| not the means many general fact sins) until, in the course of | few with be covered years, they should the everlasting. mantle of the grave. a it has been claimed the Thanifeato there ava Tell ene afford Mr. _{|there : town Mr. Worthington, That is what I was going to ask you about. From your knowledge-and when [ speak of knowledge I mean that gained of mantle the Vee hat fer Worthington. Rumors for- the future, when we out; in other remnant of a with fugitives of, be could afford to bear with the situation with some degree of patience until passing generation were polygamy is practically extinct? por McCarty. ,, Yes; and what can aid of Monroe wee hd said of most orate towns in the a Most other towns Mv. Worthington in the state? McCarty. Mr. Yes. Mr. Worthington. You think the increase (decrease), as you say, has been phenomenal? Mr. McCarty. [t is only a matter of a short time until it will disappear, provided there > are no new marriages. him justice. | with ordinary meretricious living, there would have been no difficulty in dealing with it, but it was not. as a case where these people had entered into these relations believing the relations were just as pure as relations existing between man and his one wife, In the ordinary affairs of life they are good citizens, law-ab idseitIf ing citize of the Scant: and we felt when » ae GE VT OTIS the question" of »where those © marriages|natics on this question of polygamy, |Speak net only for the young Mortook place in a moment. Of course, | ane o Ber ater that some of themjmons, but for the middle-aged [tis ok = . : »| Would st 10ld out, no matter what}a matter of general pleasure, or reaq' T.say, I donot know how many fthe heads of the chureh would say] joicing, that it is palais obliterated such cases there may haye been, butler go. and that they would insist upon A Worthiigton.. What would you the testimony is to the effect that]lHving, as they termed it, (ueir reli- | think, from they have been somewhat limited.|#lon, and that there would probably |in this way, The senator from Illinois (Mr. Hop-| be occasionally a case of polygamy. | president of kins) called attention to the testimony That was the way I regarded the sit-|take now to the other day, and 1 have a reference | Uation, und, as [ have already suggest-| tion, to the same, that there has not been|ed, that there would be an occasional | Utah? at all, the marriages somewhere 5 ~- ates or One else-in are nae Charles were Mostyn in . ei ‘is Can= who has APOSTLES eaeutaaete Owen, the law against unlawful and oe¢casionally a child} ray celebrated Mexice, orcs Violation of cohabitation : Only Two Waa Guilty festo an investigation into this Who tells the committee visited personally practically in wen from every Se A of Violating Left to time! ne a day settlement) ene * Mr. who fugitives from action of jusiice the Into polygamy since the mun-| editorial ifesto, 1 think Jater in his testimony he gives one or two others, and there upon church the beyond Stalk to shows Taylor and Mr. Cowley. | their Teasdale, the. testimony tify Mr. that der such the he. married his circumstances marriage as subject: evasion of the suiminons to tes- Smoot commiltee of eiv retirement is: sipgis "ccepted as an chureh. authorities ith their failure to ommittee as. well as with their Aispbedivnce of the manifesto of President Woedruff whieh forbade church members to take. plu- unh- t void, he at it seems to to consider the enti should be laid out of consideratlo EtariTins to Apostle Merrill, V the charge was made against him while he was lying upon what afterwards aa to be his deathbed, but before senate. = a Vhile or perform plural marriages no Yetalied explanation of the erate is ‘mad e, these are the rea|<, ns generally acepted as the basis of |ihe official noe ae that eee ut of harmony" and Taylor were Was sworn to, in which he positively with their quor a Although ihe denied this charge and said it was|orities of the church will not concede utterly false, and that had not any g00d motive in the action of the married any wife at ifesto. I. believe said about that. ail what The since With Rare non-Abra H. man- authorities. Mr. Merrilli testimony to the contrary "ae ony of hearsay and rumo in the lo ‘Abraham the Hi. Can- Cannon. was | she said that upon his asked her forgiveness, and that, in her judgment-he was a conscientious ian she sald-the fact that he had Vieluted the Jaw and violated the mandate of the church preyed upon his ALLA ARR LLL mind so grave. to that it worrled What Mr. would tO into a com eat rant as Evidence Could the no doubt two but that recalcitrant marriages. was meant in the case Whether their retirement to influence the ecision of Senator Smoot, as his or wheilher it was a matter of church d ee alone, it) must produce able imy i th t the OoHnier an well as here.in Utah, where the public is. familiar -circumstanccs y his o us short Not Ifold Them. leading up to the climax. ix approved by non-members of the church here gees without. saying, Messrs. Cowley and Taylo were charged with what amounted to flagrant deflance of civil and church Jaws since the manifesto, They were wanted as witnesses before the senate but chose to evade service and thus defy the federal aulhovities. That they have been disciplined ought That leaves two of the apostles; and |qn he suficient proof that the ehurch he preferred chargos ee Cae a egainst, those Etats to the first presidency of the church and demanded an investigation. An investigation and it resulted in the remen from their are today fugitives jurisdicin a. foreign _As to the character ef these cases, Judge Powers, one of e- witnesses for the vanes testified that they to manifesto compel and authorily far Step Loug observance of as power, compel so respect lies in its the for VYe- In Advance. There are doubtless those who will be dissatisfied with any action. the echureh may take short absolute submission to the men who - have sought to control it politically for their own ends 1 general public, whieh js interested only in the settlement of the contentions that have torn the state into factions, will recognize in this change uw long step in advance, one calculated to win friends for the ehureh and curb those. high omicials who have betrayed it refusa paetiten the binding foree of the ae ecclesiastical as well. as Mr. President. every one of these men who has taken « plural wife since the manifesto, in addition to. being a violator of the Jaw, is an enemy to his own people, who has done them will a more grievous wrong than any open and avowed opponent could possibly do, because he has set them in a false I. will Incorpnrate it in my remar e Vice President, In the absence of mbiection: permission is granted. The matter referred to !s 4 folows: light before the dette and compelled eels one of them, in the eyes urge portion of the Amerlean MeOpIe. Lo share the shame of his lawsssness. Suc man has not only were - ineans gal o "Oe sl ces nnn ti CR SOI with reference to those two, if we were to consider the testimony in this recovd alone, [ think no judge would probably hold it was sufficient to warrant a2 verdict of conviction by a jury. Still T have absolutely no doubt in my own mind that both those apostles have taken plural wives since the manifesto, and [ think there are nea words in. the English language that ave sufficiently severe with which to condemn their conduct { appears, however, that when the attention of Senator Smoot was called to the. testimony before the senate committee, not spora slop < in ead character. the [ testimony, Senator McComas. Have there been many eee marriages lately? Of course pol PERMOVE » marriages are forbidden. ad it is dificult to ascertain whether there haye been, Mr, Powers. If there are any polygamous Oe marriages ARNO ‘is at the they. present are 2?! time, sporadic ev iie ‘McCarty, a Gentile and ghee - Justice pr e auprens bench of nn ifiea to substantially ike sa re pant were only about au dozen or #0 of such cases, He further ‘testified ‘that it wel his opinthe eee cume aiean the law and his own pledgés, If ates impliedly, and mnily given to the fied ‘an be ne uttered for that If I had my would be in the but he has broken not expressly, at none the ‘less pote nation. As toleration kind of an way, every jail serving individual. 6ne out of them the ‘ex- treme penalty of the law, and, Mr. President, in my deliberate jJudgmeny, that is the feeling and the sentiment of the vast majority of the Mormon people themselves. The Mormon people are opposed to polygamy being restored, selves are The Mormon people themopposed to these violations of law have a number of extracts Baa and d fro engaging in this kind|from the testimony upon that subject, 8 oftense rom expected there|and, with the permission of would be ‘a occas ins on case of this}ate, T will incorporate them in my charactér. © ny ecrstorMeCarty testified | remarks without stopping to read that, the people who' had violated the [them i Leo of tha wha the yo ; am speaking on of the ‘testified goin. over ° ox | will eeetast ask you whether, it? eee. in your Ae Peetu ie .. 4 S agains [ ‘ eae Everywhere that 1 have ‘ever Dee ol es have ever heard eee of, itis certainly against olygamy. Mr. . Van Cott. oo How is ' it with the vounger clement-the younger generation? Mr. Cole. Well, they In particular are peelnit polygamy, Mr an. Cott... How is it with' Mormons ~ ho are more advanced in years slnce the manifesto? vr. Cole. [I have not heard. that inatter discussed very much, de not know that there are any persons there--I never heard m person express himself in: favor of polygamy since I have. been. in Utah. James A. Miner, former. Supreme court judge anda' Gentile, testified: Mr. W eet What have you observed us to the feeling of the Mormons. the ms ee ay to this subject of polygeimy Mr, M iiee The younger class of Mermons are, I think, very much opposed to it Mr, Worthington. Do you find that to be. well» nigh universal. among them? Mr. Miner. I think it is. Mr. Worthington. What would you say would be the future of polygamy that respect, without reference to any law on that subject? Mr. Miner.:: I think. in time, wen these ne people who are new in polygamy > off, it will entirely end. ‘That hasbeen my hope. . opponents affect to believe, happend Cannon if he had lived, we do not know. He died, within ACRE him have is of ihe ehureh against further polygamous an | there discipline apostles will be taken by the country faith panera, as an evidence of good a desire to enforee the laws of nature ad a plural wife in within thirty days ae that marriage-I th ink it Wa8S) nty days. Is legal wife was @ and wilehee before the committee, 4 apostle Ar 1896. He died the I county, and: fromwhat.-you there Since you: have been in the | Ciice, talk'én] ven= | nificant. because. It It ¢ vidence that the by a court were dissatistied .w by a decree appear. before the was afterwards declared of competent Jurisdiction to be void. when we come record, his oat wife anwa absolutely aapieth When | Pinion. the sentiment js: for. polygamy was whieh indicates | session on Sunday with. the : ones, additional ifon of. two apostles and. the appoint which brings the total number up lO}ment of three. new members of the about, as I say, twenty. In this dist}, yorum, Most significant of the conof twenty there are the names of five | ference ucts was the retirement of ose retail g sare Mr TeasApostles Cowley and Taylor, who have Abraham H. Cannon,2 been conspicuous ja the public eye by der - in minute ae trom their | Elder they are to=}] snow. One of the most:notable of tae Mor|, non church conferences concius ao its is some testimony that there are some it a Seen: Worthington. ormon seople s ty Mr. n Idaho an yomin ua e has es take Herald, a Cen TeWwHe agents practically in every setlement paper published eg bare Take, wht "n in those three states, gives us. w litt} has always been opposed to the pracof eleven nen Whom he thinks have|tice of polygamy, had the tellowing entered polygamy Procicerntnat MOLPMON poopie, Presicert, as T| wp Cole, « Gentile, were guilty of) Mr. Van Cott. In jurisdiction of the aed that for Mani- Offices. sulWect,| this thing were removed he has | offices fx the phere and time Mormon es REMOVED. of seemed lo be a sort of master of cere: ‘Ty monies in this whole | investigation, Mr. Sutherland. who for many years has been conduct-|*4¥. the apostles ing and ae WERE re-establishing Mr. Meakin. Knowing the men, I think it fs rather a question. that. is not supposable; but T do not believe that the people of Utah would stand Mormon s e Jurors 2s More o Strict. I- have noticed another thing. Since the manifesto we have had Mormon jurors, had no Mormon jurors. The marshals would select Gentiles to the exclusion of Mormons. But after the manifesto we aaa having Mormon jurors instead of all Gentiles, and I found that in many cases a» Mormon jury would convict anyone for adultery or unlawful cohabitation quite as well as a Gentile-tha is, the feeling kept growing in "ital direction. £9 aras the violation of the mz a obgation is coneerned, the Mormon people would conviet a man who broke t as readily as a Gentile, and T think more so. They seem to have a feeling against Mormons who would. violate that obligation, and I think among that class of young people there is more virtue than among almost any other class. lias A. Smith. bank cashier and business man, testified: Mr. Van Cott.. Calling attention to any rumors that vou may heard regarding alleged plural marriages since the manifesto, I should like to Know what Js your position. and the position generally taken by the young Mormons on that question, and by all the Mor om on that question Mr. Sm position ike the members "OR, the Mormon. chureh is that it is in violation of the spirit of the manifesto and contrary to the law Mr. Chairman. What? . Mr Worthington. Having plural wives. : Mr. Smith. Vaking. plural wives; andT have yet to talk with a Mormon who approves of it; and in every in- stance where I have talked with them it has ae disapproved of in very strong terms Maj. Ric ae. vd W, Young, « Mormon, and Srivninent in svelat and business cireles, testified as follows: Mr, Van Cott. What is the sentiment of the Mormon people regarding the entering Into polygamy since the manifesto? is decidedly us to whether the asi AE hostile. nd the the result both eae adaitional pa a of festo? Mr. Young. - s Will Be As Sexrce As Bigumy. Mi. Stephens. ‘J think they word be just as rare as Ligamy among people generally. Oh, I would not say ania OS fare as that; very rare tt Wweuld be only ‘in the cause of an utter Pianta, who Would perhaps impose upon the ratertio Five officer in order to get. a plural wife Senator Foraker. But there will be ho trouble to prosecute in such cases? Mr, Stephens. , Not the slightest Sonator Forake tn os of ‘tia kind? Mr. Stephens. No If | were dbistrict attorney, [ would be. willing to submit a case of that kind to wa jury tf Mormons. Senator Foraker. Toa jury of Mormons? Mr. Stephens. { would, ar as that is concerned I feel the sentiment is so general-that the ee acting. of new plural marriag genermly execrated both by par qnd Gentiles Mr. Marvin, previously quoted, testified: Mr. Worthingion. From your a quaintance with. tne Mormon people in [ state, have you learned anything as to their position in reference to this matter of polygamy-the youhger people cspecially Mr. Martin. Yes have discussed it a good deal with the m. being among them and with them in the campaign. They all expressed themselves against it-as glad ee the ehurch stopped it, and against : On this eabledt Mr. Whitecotton testified as follows . Van Cott In traveling over slate, and in your acquaintance the Mormon people, L will ask to state what you have found be their sentiment now in regard to the practice of- polygamy-that is, IT mean the sone ting of new polygumous marria Mr. i nitacatan I think the de- cided sentiment of the Mormon = people in Utah.is hostile to polygamy. AIL of those quoted above are Gentiles except Mr. Smith | and Young, and all are reliable z worthy persons of long residence in the state AS TO CHURCLE Naturally INTER E ERENCE, Dabbled in Politics In arty Days, But No More. Mr, Sutherland. ‘So much for polygamy and polygamous - cohabitation There have been two complaints which have been most strenuously urged by the opponents of the Mormon church -polygamy and church interference in political affairs. have already discussed the former, and T shall naw divect the attention of the senate to the one of these proposlicomplaints were past T have no well founded in the doubt, but senate is interested the conditions are in' knowing now, and we are only concerned with past conditions to the extent that they may reflect Heht upon the present. When the Mormon pioneers, in 1847, went to Utah their movernent possessed all the characteristics of a religious exodus. They met suffering and hardships and dangers at. the hands of savage men and savage nur ture With a courage born of religious exaltation. The story of thelr mareh into the wilderness and early sufferings' and herdships paraltels in struggles. To the than the the history Brigham leader of pathetic of their has few of | ploneer Young was more their. expedition. many perils to the promised land. With serene confidence in' his Gea. given ability to conduet them in safe‘ty they followed ayak into the unknown with as and pra T he Reining "te is probable that they ata not roel the need of a ong government a ey were of o faith Their satgiais was their main consideration. Everything else was o subordinate Importance. When thee established a civil government. their a sentiment sentiment-an aa , T believe it is not right. Mr. Charles De ee resident tified: ~ Senator Foraker What is your judgment as to. plural marrioges? understand you to. have oxpressed one, but Ll want you to -cxpress., it again Mr. Stephens. As to whether there will be more? Senator Foraker. Yes He was the new Moses pointed out by the finger of God to lead them Girbueh of "What are your own views as My Peatlat her it is right to practice polygamy, since the © manl- a Oposed. suy you issuance a sentiment already existing In Utah? Mr. Young, TI should say that it oie! Are a sentiment whether the expression of would mere the manutfesto ecrented agalnat polygamy, or manifesto was the mere Old) Mr. De Moissy. I think there is a growing. sentiment-l_ have noticed for some time-not only among the younger, bul among a good many »ther Mormons, that they are opposed to the practice of polygamy: not only pposed to the marriage, but opposed to the unlawful. cohabitation. Mr. John W. Hughes, a newspapei pen of wide experience in Utah, also » Gentile, testified as follows people Mr. Hughes. The Mormon generally As much against new polygamous marriages as the Gentiles, believe, as. a: rule, Sacieenase sounger Mormons that T meet 1 meet 1 good many of the younger Mormons, and they are absolutely against it rhey would not tolerate it Mrs . Jones, wa resident of Salt Lake City, testified Mrs. Jones 1 have talked toa et reat nany I have traveled over the state aA great deal with. my Se in 1is business and jo our outings, and [ have talked with a greal many, especially of the younger Mormons, on that subject. They have been very much opposed to it In fact, some of chem have said to me amt they would like to be called on a ju Ye Chairman, Like ih be what? ones. Hed on wa jury, to sink aman who might be arrested for going into. polygamy since the manifesto. Mr. Frank B. Stephens. a Gentile lawyer, and former elty altlormey of Salt Lake City, testis Mr Stephens. So fav as plural marriages, additional marriages, are concerned, the sentiment is unanimously against them, both Mormon and Gen(ile. The general feeling is rau ne punishment coul " Loo be visited elther upon the ete amihizing officer or the conutracting partles, and it is very much more pronounced in the matter of additional marriages than it is upon unlawful cohabitailon. The reason is obvious, Unlawful cohabitation will cease when these men die, if there are no more plural marriages: but if there are more plural marriages the institution will be Sere ee and the siluation intolera Mr. Van Cott. Is that the sentiment among the Mormons themselves. In regard to it? Mr. Stephens. Tt is. T have never beard anything bul words of condemnation for one whe would solemnize a plural PER: ov for a@ contracting part S regarded asthe grossest Pen of good faith Mr. Worthington You mean since the manifesto? Mr. Stephens. Since the manifesto : to excecd twenty cases since the manifesto. was issued in 1890 in Utah; ana] it appears that In those cases, so far as anything appears on the subject your knowledge, obtained would be the effect if the the church should underpromulgate a new revela- and Moisy, a Gentile of Provo, Utab. and tes- religious ficers. leaders As the chureh pronounced. time became went ag a CITY, UTAH, SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 3, 1907. Mr. Van Cott. What is the senti-' ment among the Mormons as to new ee at le mMeUniE Ee s since the manifesto,, and vat is the sentiment also of the viteuee Mormons as to polygamy Young seen gr manga ng Magy de igh saw hae a ne Rp a ae « ~~ -- on the the civil rule of- of beeame more and more The disposition of the leaders to advise, counsel and direct, led that that was due to the interfer-| ‘en ce and that of the of the chureh, > testimony rection, counsel is overwhelming, > effect that it) things grew stronger and stronger as was not due to It was time went on. In those days the charged that Was nomi-! was a virtual nated in the convention. government of Utah by improper theocracy. There practical and corrupt methods. t was insisted union of chureh In this th at delegates in. the convention had document attenbeen purchased, ee there lion to by Captain Stansbury, against those al revolt cli at page 131, there fs somewhat m ethods, I do not think that Mr rraphie deseription. of this situation, Knox himself ae charged with havyWhich I sire ad those transacgz been a rty to were made, cha TROS Church and Its Oflleers, very bitter feeling was a "While Republican howe VCr; party with. referthere are all the enee to them and Mormons and Genof a government til es alike revolted and voted against temporal, it can not be conM r. Knox's candidacy ja so intimately blended Judge Charlies S. Zane, who was spiritual administration of or ie of the judges all through the prosthe ehureh that it would be iImpossliecution of these polygamy cases, an ble lo separate the one from the othwho certainly can not be charged er. The fivst civil governor under with being in any manner under the the constitution of the new stale, eontrot of the Mormon chureh, was elected by the people. was the presione ef the men who. fought Mr ehurch, Brigham Young; Knox's candidacy and did it openly was his first ©. J, Sallsbury, a Gentile and national and the seccommitteeman, was another. There second counselor, were scores of prominent Gentiles who individuals forming toad the same. So [might go on with ‘presidency" * church these other instances In the testimony ' bishops or the several wards who, ab to the facts, I will incorporate by virtue of their office ehurceh, some extracts from four or five withad exercised not only a spiritual but re sses to the effect that since the pres@ temporal nuthority over the seve ral it head ef the chureh has been presdistricts assigned to their charge. were ent he has not only Kept out of poliappointed, under the civil oieanisad tics himself, . but. he kept the tion, to be justices of ehurch out of polities: < my obserwere supported as to what has been going on vation their duties not civil that state during the last flve or in power, spiritual Six years-and it has been a someauthority This inu vhat observation-leads me to timate connection of chureh and state that that is true Since. that be Hove is to pervade overything~ that pi esident has been at the head of the supreme. power both ehuren the chureh and tne president being Jodged in the hands » Same of ‘ie zen Uren have been kept out of Individuals, it is diMeult separate pe iti their two official characters and to = termine whether, in one Instance, the as spiritual or merely te pipoted PROGRESS HAS BEEN MADE. porate please, The Jeetion, The he proceeds. 1 will -incorthe vest of it, ifthe -senate without reading further, Vice President. Without permission is granted. folmatter referred to. Is as tows: In the organization of the civil goyernment nothing could be more natural than that, the whols people being of- one faith, they should choose. for funeWlonaries to carry. it. into. execution those to whom they had. been in the habit of deferring as their inspired guides and by whom they had led land of persecution wilderness, whieh, under was already beginning blossom like the rose. Hlonce cume the insensible blending of the two authorities, the principal functionaries of the one holding the same relative sitions under the other : bishop, in case of a two members. of the Interpose his. spiritual :adjustment, erences between thosé not tne spirltual jurisdiction, could hot be made amenable he would act In the magcapacity confermed upon him constitution aad eiyil kiws. of Phus the control of. the remained tn the under church > orgunization, and: these in au double capacity constituents had, citizens or ias chureh members, themselves chosen to contide it (From Stansbury's Expedition te the Valley of the Great Salt, Lake, 1862, p. 132 ) Gave Credit to Situation. Myr. Sutherland. The government of the. United. States itself gave uneonscious credit to the situation. by appointing and reappointing as goverhor ef the territory, the. spiritual ead of Fe ehurch,, Brigham Young 1 elt fii 1870. the Gentiles whe had ee. ed jn that. territory, though. very. few in number, organized what was called he "Liberal party Tt had for its object the overthrow of polygamy and church interference in governmental matters. The Mormon people in opposition had a party called the "Peoparty.' These two parties were , pro-church and anti-church racter {n the Liberal -party Mormons; Im the Peo¢ there were no Gentiles party fight which ensued and which for the next twenty years was lasted bitterest possible description. of the In 1891 the "People's party," ed, was disbanded, and the cratic and Republican parties were organized throughout the - territory prior to that time, however, beginning probably carly as 1886, there became manifest a growing restlessness and dissatisfaction on the part of the youn men in the church, and some or ihe older ones ws well, with reference to thts condition of affairs There began to ‘ demands that the church should give up polygamy, and that a system of politics should be tnuugurated in the state in harmony with that which existed in other communities, As illustwative of this, in 1888, a number of young men of the chureh organized a Democratic party, which was calle in derision he "Sage Brush Democracy," but which name they aflerwards adopted in earnest party nominated a themselves. This in congress and candidate for delegate conducted a campaign against both of the old parties. Ln 1890 there oceurred anotber instance. I happened to be living In the tewn of Prova where Senator Smoot then resided and now resides. I was nominated as the candidate for mayor of the Liberal party. A number of the younger men in the church revolted against the People's purty and supported my candidacy. Among the leaders in that revolt was Senater Reed Smoct, himself. Since 1881 it has been charged, and there is some testimony in the record tending to show, that there has been interference on the part of some of the high oflicials of the church, in political matters. I am not going to the instances which rebecause, not the thne ond place, in view o ment which | shall make, it does not seem to me important to do so, Many of the instances which are mentioned by these witnesses. are based wholly upon hearsay, which_ is always kind of testimeny. Some of them are absolutely disproven, but there still. remain some oo and, in my judgment, there ave been some instances since. the aaa of national party lines. where high officials of the Mormon church » interfered in political matters, Bul the great and important fact it seems. to me. it ought lo me-and to be also to the senate-is, that while there have been occasional instances of this kind there has been ference, Been Some Shows Inpeovements Lines Sinee Lo and as: Many IKE. pe women are as ilas Not Taken Active and great olher Meusurcs, Mormon the Mr. McCarty; neople, if they: "were a combine, would have the absolute control of the state nominate whomsoever they ay 1d eouls could exclude. every They Br est the ticket, if they were Gentile from Realizing that they have so disposed. power, Gentiles aro somewhat this about thelr candidacy, or cautious upprehensive until they somewhat whether ee is going to be know fight against the or not. Now, a much promit think a great de aL es is given the church ne enee I do not think the m atters last few taking or has been In the is campaigns taking the active part that chureh, been attributed to the he is candidates usually want to know but there is going to be a ight WwW hether against them, realizing that if m ade chureh so desires or the people the compose it they could defeat , of them, I unhave solicited and gone and with the presidency others, but those Gentiles have y@be generally the weakest proved have been placed on candidates that the ticket. Dubois. But they are anx;, are they not;. they are solicitous the church is go» find out whether them or whether they inggz to Oppose we favor their candidacy Yes Owing to this McCarty. there and recogcontinual agitation is a factor that ni zing that the church there is alreckoned. with, be ™ ust of uncerways an air, an atmosphere in every campaign. ta inty Senator Dubois. What, in your judgin the judgment of men like m en and you, is now and has always been the er eater evil there, polygamy or chureh in polities dictation of Mr.; McCarty, W ell, I do not know any direct church dictation in politics. Of course T have always thought that this question of polygamy has been used a great deal as a mask with the echurch for supto attack which interferences, and or alleged posed matters. The only so fortb, in those instance that I know of in the way of interference, if it could be such, was the Thatcher eple N. Cole, Gentile, of CoMr. Samuel rinne, Utah, testified as follows Van Cott. Iow did you hold vote with the Republican UL » in your the same ticket? Mormons on ole, I ran right along with as near as I could make out, th em, exception of this Peterson Tnterferenerc, made to Some reference has been the city election of 19038, when Mr. iksiox, idate on the Republican ticket, was defeated, and it was claim- is greatest. vote n his ward, Brigham. City. lives. in. J. understand he. ran he but outside of that t lit tle ahead, ra n with the ticket, right through the co unty. Mr. Van Cott... Did you ahead of yyour own pokey precinet, run a little in Corinne where you liv Yes; a we i) Party Lines Well Drawn. Mr. Van Cott. While you have lived im Box Elder county, have you seen interference on half of tho ai y Mormon echureh with the polities of the people or of the voters of either party? been mons vir, in that count Candland. Tne some Gentiles PAG over Mor- instances, Mr. Van Cott. Will you give a few them, please? Mr. Candland T remember where bishops or presidents of stakes have heen on > ticket and have been deGentiles who feated anti-Mormon. at bitter member that. Mr. J..D. Pag e was clected -to.. the constitutional convention over Mr ©. N. Lund, a very prominent Mormon. who was a Democrat, Van Gott. Any others? ig | honest there of Oo cere-I am speaking of the of the people now-as any ople arth on McCarty testified: Judge to be- yes Now, Mass found tho in Fesary eee in politic Mr. Cole. You mean whether they stay by the ticket? Mr. Van Cott Yes. Mr. Cole. Tf believe they will, certainly There is no question about that. They stay by the ticket in our county as well as any people I Know. Mr. Van Calling attention to the time that you haye been in Utah, what is your opinion as to the manner in which the Gentiles have been treated in the Mormon county you refer lo, namely, y, in regard to offices and Mr. Cole. treated matter. is, notice w make any distinction. Of course, are always some Mormons on ticket, but there is a big majJority Mormons in the county. There ars always some Gentiles the tickel ever since I have been there Mr. Van Cott, Are the Petal affairs of the county administered by) w hat are called "county commissioners Yos Mr, Cole. Cott. Is one of them a Mr, Van Gentile? Mr. Cole. We have one of them a Ge Ma Tee one a Mormon, and one that seems to be neither one, I belleve, Mr an Cott. The Gentile that is known as a Gentile-does he belong to any. chureh? think he is a Mr. Cole Yes; I Baptist. Mr. Van Cott. Do oN know whether this -is his first te his second Mr. eee waa term. > was elected last fall to his second re Cott How did he get along with his comrades on the Teey ticket? Did he hold up with them ‘ He held right up with Mr. Cole, everywhere the ticket near. as I can make into it a Was running. little just Mormon, of Mount Mr. Candland, testifies Pleasant, Utah, Calling yout r. Van,.Cott. attenton now to polities, what is yyour opinjon as to the indepe ndence of the Mormon people in voting Candiand, I know. that they ure independent, judging others from myself. Mrivan-Cott Well, from your observation? Mv. Candland My observation has been that they voted as they pleased, without, any inlerference; that they would brook | no Se Ser One Mr. Van Now, in the actual conduct of CeoNtheaad aint have ha Ss been an advance in other Mr. President, will) ask incorporate in remarks, withot il reading acts Powers ¢ stimeony of M eCarty, Mr, Mr, Candland and M r. Stephens reterence iy this au Ivunce, also some extracts with Lo Fre ference President Smith i aving of politics ke yt In the absence The Vice President. objection, permission is. granted. The testimony referred to is as follows Judge Powers testified: Well, there has been Mr progress that to me ts, in view conditions that existed prio time, somewhat ea as ist ‘or nstance priov to that but not te se ¢netan unusual by people have talks. They have pro‘ogressed politieally erpes csoct socially. The bitterness that gre Ww as so intense between Mormons and e to describe ky G entiles that it Is hard great measure' passed away, has.in.a lt exists, unfortunately, to al though some xtent vet. Take it socially. Prior a 1892 [I do nol know that any ne members of ihe Alls M ormons the uding social club of thot club, present time there are city A ie of that club, an M ormon s been an advance, What have you to in your judg ment, as to the honesty and slncerit y of the Mormon men women? at 1d Mr. Powers. T believe the Mormon I have not. How have you Mormons an Mormons ing There meetings on preceding the election there political talks, by the given ie » how the du Ww ihe Cole: No; Van Cott. Republican Democratic re spects a improvement Jn that > direction; my deliberate judgment is that since 1900 there heen no Instance of that kind in > state of, Utah at all. I do not mean to say that some president of a stake or some bishop in some outlying locality may not have done somet but, so far as the leaders of the church mre concerned, since 1960 there has been, to my mind, no well-authenticated case. of Iinter- Has Church Mr. Mr. the Mr. Candland's Testimony, Mire Bene Candland, I know that Mr. Christensen, a member of the presideney, has been repeatedly aaa by Gentiles. If y sa like, I can give you several instance Van Cott.. IT would like you to hame a few more QMr, Candland. In 1895, ! think-I ain not quite positive as to t Was a city election-Mr. Neilson, a Gent elected crat, 1902 elected over George Christensen, for superinstake presidency, fendent of schools. Van Cott. What was. Larsen? Candland. Larsen was a MorIam not positive as to mon, I think never knew whether he was a Mormon or not Van Cott. All right. 1902, Mr. Owen, Candland ln particular ofholding no Mr, Peterser fice, was elected over presidency, foi Mattson of the stake justice of the peace. In 1903 Mr Sowman, a Gentile, was nominatcc mayor over Mr. Mattson, and he was elected over George Christensen. a member of the stake presidency, for the office of mayor, ‘That year we also elected alee Republican ‘council ors-one of them was the principal o° a Presbyterian high school-over Mor Stephens testified: Stephens. I would say tha there are various kinds of chureh influence. ‘There is, first, the influence: which any man has sa) "influence'' without saying "church." There is, first, the influence that an may has who is respected in the com munity and whose judgment is re spected by those who know him; anc when it comes lo a church, if he I ua member of a chureh, undoubted!s he would have an additional influence among the members of that chure of a member; an in the Mormo: perhaps, to some exter greater than in the othe I would call that, perhaps churches. legitimate church influence. That is the natural influence which follows from a man's standing in the community. If, however, uestion came up which involved the interest of the Mormon church, I wou say, for In: stance, take the election of 1900, wher the of protection was quit: prominent, and the Mormon churct is interested in sugar business- think if the leaders of the churcl would go out and say, "We. feel tha our interest is in having the protectiv: tariff continued," it would have grea weight, and I would compare it, think, to the influence turer men. you shall ests lie this would have its. Could Swing of a manufac to his and influence. Some work hor think f Mormons. I think there are probably 25 Ube cent of the Mormon yeters who cou be swung one way or the other, A possibly ‘might be, where there wa something vital that came up, Mr. Van Cott. You think that 7 er cent are beyond any kind of ir fluence at all? Mr. Stephens. No; I would not su that they were beyond any kind of in fluence at do not think' an: man_ is beyond any kind of influence Mr. Van Cott. You mean - Mr. Stephens. I would say this: 7 velleve the great majority of the mem- ters of posed the te Mormon church church are Splat tics and want it to be a thing past. ey are to it. and resent Mr., Van ‘Cott. Mr. Stephens. Mr, - Van Cott. vou had finished. Mr. Stephens. very 2 ie it, I think. Excuse op- poli- of the me. Proceed. was in oppose I thought going to say, { think if the first presidency should »penly advocate or dictate to the es <A how they should vote it woul sesented sat down upon. said, that their influence welght in matters which As have the und chureh ~ Van or its Cott. Interests. Now, It think would affect referring tg ae KE PP . Pe ea FIV ey ate F ° rr _ FIP ~ Pr |