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Show Rich: It originally held 27 million acre feet of water. When And he said, “We're going to lose the Grand Canyon as well." That night we had our press conference and announced we were going after Lake Powell. We had our ammunition and 1800 people showed up at Kingsbury Hall...standing room only. And they gave Brower a five minute standing ovation. It was wonderful. Then someone asked if any big environmental group supported us and Brower proposed we go to the Sierra Club board of directors. And they voted ‘by acclamation to support us...of course that’s after the big bribe and the...what was it? Half a million dollars? (Rich refers to a recent accusation by a Sierra Club member that David Brower offered the board $250,000 to the sediment reduces the capacity of the reservoir and can’t meet the needs of the lower basin, then any argument to keep the reservoir will be gone. As for power, that structure never existed for power. So because of the huge trend to drain it and the sediment, it’s an absolute inevitability. Zephyr: What are some of the other economic and scientific and political reasons why the lake should be drained? Rich: The reservoir is there for a SINGLE purpose and we need to remind ourselves the way Los Angeles reminded us last November when they said, "Please drain it. We need the water." It is there as a reservoir to hold water for the Lower Basin States. The Upper Basin support a resolution to drain the Powell Reservoir. He thinks the accusation is as funny as it is ridiculous...JS) Zephyr: Tell us about your relationship with Floyd Dominy. States don’t use the water and they’ll never use it. When it no longer meets the needs of Rich: I ama friend of Floyd Dominy and I’m happy to say that. As an individual he’s far more colorful than Brower. David Brower is the visionary and his literary skills are overwhelming. Dominy has none of those skills. Dominy is nuts and bolts, he's a bureaucrat, but he’s a funny guy. You would love to be around him. He told mea lot about his life and his heart. He’s a distant man. He has no close friends. He won’t even let his dog inside. He lives alone in this cold house that reminded me of a mausoleum. The dog came to the door with me and I said, "Mr. Dominy, do you want me to let the dog in?" and Evaporation? In water year 1995 they measured a loss of 667,000 acre feet of water lost to evaporation. I asked to Dominy about that; they knew it would happen. Then there was another 225,000 acre feet lost to bank storage. But the other thing that will happen, when they can no longer assure the Lower Basin that the reservoir can provide water during a drought, they'll just say, "Just give us the he said, "The dog’s not allowed in. You can try but he won’t come in." And yet I have a good relationship with him and I keep in touch. I admire him, not for what he did, but for believing in what he did. You can’t fault a man for taking his views to other people. He and Brower had a wonderful three days. They argued, especially about the Grand Canyon. Every time the topic came up, Dominy started screaming and pounding the table. After the debate one night, he accused Brower of lying about damns in the Grand Canyon. "You said they were going to be built inside the park and they weren't!" I remember Brower staring straight ahead while Dominy, on his right, was screaming in his ear. Brower didn’t flinch. Once I went back to Virginia to visit Dominy at his house. We watched an advance copy of the documentary film Cadillac Desert and he said, "You're not going to like what I say about Brower..I call him a sanctimonious bastard." Later during the film, Barry One thing I don’t people realize is that trends mean absolutely everything. ..it's not where we are, but which way we're going. There is a huge trend toward the environment. We're doing more now than ever in history to preserve the lands...toward restoring ecosystems, not just here in the U.S., but all over the world. Goldwater gets on there and talks about how, if he could change one senate vote, he'd change his vote for Glen Canyon Dam. And Dominy said, "The only difference between that old man and me is that he’s lost his mind." That’s what he said. Then I asked him a question, "David Brower makes the claim that you took delight in flooding Glen Canyon...is that true?" And he said, "I took absolute delight." But then he asked me how serious this effort was to drain Lake Powell and I told him it was quite serious. Dominy said, "Well you're doing it all wrong." We were at dinner now and he takes a napkin and draws the dam the side walls. He says, "It’s 300 feet of reinforced concrete on those diversion tunnels. You can never drill them out. Just drill new ones around them. It’s never been done before but it’ll work...I’ve been thinking about it." And then he said something very stunning. He said, "I’m sorry about the destruction in the Grand Canyon. But is it so bad to have a trout stream down there?" And we said, "Yes." Zephyr: One of the first times I saw you speak was a couple years ago in Moab. I remember someone asked if you really thought the lake would be drained and you replied, "Absolutely. There’s no doubt in my mind." You were so confident, you didn’t even pause. Why are you so confident? Rich: One thing that I don’t think people realize is that trends mean absolutely everything. In medicine, stocks, our personal lives, our relationships...it’s not where we are, but which way we’re going. There is a huge trend toward the environment. We're doing more now than ever in history to preserve the lands. Now there is a huge trend toward restoring ecosystems, not just here in the U.S., but all over the world. Now specifically, with Glen Canyon Dam, the sediment will do that...when is the the Lower Basin, it will go and that’s what will drain Lake Powell. As for economics, once that happens there are no economics water." Why it will lose a million acre feet of water when it isn’t providing us any benefits? Meeting in October. ‘ Zephyr: Do you think you'll see this in your lifetime? Rich: Oh absolutely. Our effort will provide a sound economic and scientific basis that will argue forever that there is a reason to drain it, rather than just saying, "I want to see Glen Canyon again." That accounts for something but you have to give to them numbers and logic. As long as you’re applying pressure and you have the numbers, you can look for the weak moments. Look at L.A. wanting the water...believe me, we're going to emphasize this in the fall. We spoke at a meeting in Las Vegas where the seven Basin commissioners were in attendance. That was historic. They asked us to speak on why we should drain Lake Powell. The commissioners of the Upper and Lower Basin states were there. These are THE water users and they came up afterwards and made some very telling comments to us. They want to see our document (the interim draft release of the citizens’ environmental assessment) in the fall and they said this was going to help them manage the Colorado River in a different way. This is a huge step for them to say that an environmental group is going to help manage the Colorado River by the work we're doing. Zephyr: How consistent is wanting to drain Lake Powell with early Mormon teachings about stewardship of the lands. Rich: It’s not just consistent with early Mormon teachings, it’s consistent with current Mormon teachings. We are taught from a very early age that God’s creations are sacred. What people always have to weigh in the balance is, what we're doing is destroying God's creations. We are stewards of the land. It’s true that it says we're given "dominion" over the land, but if you look at the word, it doesn’t mean power, it means stewardship over it. At the Mormonism and the Environment Symposium, (former SLC Mayor) Ted Wilson got up and said, “I’m a Mormon and I’m an environmentalist." I'd alter that to say, "I’m a Mormon; therefore I’m an environmentalist." The teachings are that consistent. There is _ nothing in the teachings of the Latter Day Saints that would give you the opinion that anything else is true. Zephyr. You just came back from Alaska... Rich: Alaska is pristine. You know, I have a view that we should preserve land for animals and not even let people in. Alaska has that. They call them preserves and people can walk in there, but it’s like walking on tundra for 300 miles. There are no roads and just huge places where there’s nobody but the animals. And that’s the way it should be. It was just stunning. Absolutely wonderful. Zephyr: What do you think Utah will look like in 25 years? Rich: I can remember back 25 years. You know what? I’m not disheartened over the last 25 years. I’ve seen a lot of good happen. Life has its ups and downs. I would make some changes but I think life is good. We have to fight for the earth. We have to drain Lake Powell. We have to save wilderness. But the people will do that. We'll make things happen. I think the state is going to grow in the metropolitan areas. Moab is going to grow. The Zephyr will become the state’s largest newspaper... feel very good about the future and I can almost assure you that in 25 years, the draw-down of Powell will be during that period of time. And the Glen Canyon Institute is going to do everything in its power to see that it’s restored. I look forward to the next 25 years...I think it’s going to be fun. Don’t you? there’s enough sediment in there that the justification for the reservoir no longer exists, then it will go. QO0OO) Just to clarify that comment, sediment doesn’t have to fill the reservoir to render’ it useless? Don't hate oa x ie pon Hot? Baked to a crisp? Sun beating down so brightly, your poor squinty little eyes look like slits? scat 702 $. Main, Moab * 259-5731 SUMMER HOURS: MON THROUGH SAT: 9AM-7PM SUNDAY: 12;330PM-6PM go. Zephyr: Who exactly in Los Angeles is asking for the reservoir to be pulled down? Rich: The commissioners of the Lower Basin. It happened at the Colorado River Users’ question, not if. My opinion is, even without this movement to drain the reservoir, when Telae and You need help. We have the shades to beat the glare. Med segs: os \ <n |