Show SOME VERY HOT SHOT It was Poured Into the Liberal Agitators Yesterday THE REPUTATION OF GILLMOB Old Han Wardells Own Children Fall to Sec Eye to Eye with their ParentMr Williams on the Mormons When the circus now going on in the dlatrit ourt opened yesterday morning there was the usual mob in attendance and the Li oral forces were augmented by the acquisition of Parley L Williams DR II J KICnAKDS I have resided in Salt Lake city since 164S Have been a physician since 1S71 Have been a member of the church since I was eight years old Received my endowments endow-ments in 1850 I made no covenant or oath to avenge the blood of the prophets against tho government of tho United States Nothing of that character was presented I took no obligation to enter into polygamy polyg-amy To P L WilliamsI never officiated in tho Endowment house I saw Heber C Kimball and Dr Sprague I do not know whether I hold the priesthood or not This is because I was notified that if I did not join a quorum I would be dropped from the priesthood I did not go to the meeting meet-ing I am not a very active member of the church I go to no meetings whatever My arm was anointed to avenge the blood of the prophets Joseph and Hyrum were not mentioned I remember no obligation to obey the priesthood I do not remember rnhe 1 anything about polygamy being i said When I was married there was nothing in I the ceremony about avenging the blood of the prophets obedience to the priesthood or polygamy I have no recollection of any statement that plural marriage was not adultery I promised not to state any of the obligations I entered into there I could not state them nor am I willing to do so I dont wish to reveal any of them I decline to state what they are To the CourtI understood that Joseph and Hyrum Smith were numbered among the prophets I took no oath to avenge their blood To LeGrande YoungI did not understand under-stand the avenging of the blood referred to To the Court I did not understand that tho avenging was to be done under orders of the church or that I was to do it tried all ttuahdeoV i dIo LCGrande v To LeGrande Youne When I was married mar-ried there was nothing said to me about adultery There was nothing said about the people or tho government of the United States I did not feel enjoined to go out and kill anybody Never heard any such instruction in public or private I did not understand that an apostate was to be killed Never heard of any one being killed for this I understood thtt I could offer my lifo as an atonement for certain cer-tain sins To P L Williams Tho idea of shedding I tho blood of apostate was not tho minds of the Mormon people at that time It was a current belief in IS5G that a man might offer himself as an atonement for his sin But that his death need not necessarily neces-sarily follow That was not taught in the Endowment house I have heard talk about the smbject Never heard how the death penalty could be inflicted Never heard the authorities teach such a doctrine Have never heard that idea since the excitement ex-citement of what was called the reformation reforma-tion in 1856 It was then the talk of people peo-ple not of any authorities To DicksonBrigham Young never preached the doctrine of blood atonement that I know of To BaskinIn this talk about a man offering of-fering his life it was not said that it was for a violation of the endowment covenants I cov-enants These may have be n included I Tueie was no one authoiizel to inflict the death penalty I never heard any ono state how it should be done nor did I ever hear any of the leading men say anything I I AbouF iL I Tt L to ttAniu8 I I have resided in Salt Lake twentyseven years Am fiftynine Have been a member mem-ber of the Mormon church Was a member twenty years Ix ft the church in 1S69 Am an architect When I was in the church i went through the Endowment house This was in 1SC2 or 1SC3 I have a clear remem brano of what took place There was no covenant to avenge the blood of the prophets pro-phets against government The government govern-ment of the United States was not referred to There was nothing that could be construed con-strued into a teaching a man not to be a good citizen No reference was made to citizenship The teachings were of an other nature I dont remember polygamy being mentioned If it came up it had no prominence in tho ceremony I made no promise about it To P L Williams never went through tho Endowment house more thun once Do not remember polygamy being mentioned men-tioned there It was publicly taught at the time I was severed from the cnurch for opposing the doctrine of the church governing in temporal affairs at least that was my uuderstanding My particular act was opposing the direction of tho church in temporal or business matters We opposed the giving of council about this I by the president It was u dispute about financial matters One of the points was the development of the mines There was a church trial Brigham Young and Qeorgo Q Cannon were present I was j I also tried by the high council Bse of i I my position 1 was charged with diso toy1 lug the counsels of tile church fro did I not consider that the teachings wero to 1 obey the priesthood but at that trial it was decided contrary to I 1 our views as I understand it 11 I was in some apprehension for my i j personal safety for a year or two WilliamS i William-S Godbo and I were tried A number of I others left the church or were excommunicated excommuni-cated for sympathizing with us I barricaded barri-caded my house because I had apprehensions apprehen-sions for my personal safety thought some violence might be done by over zealous zea-lous Mormons There wore no teachings teach-ings to cause that result but there were same violent men There was a penalty attached for revealing certain mysteries of the Endowment house I know of no penalty pen-alty for apostasy Tho penalty of death was attached to revealing those Masonic ceremonies I have heard more of that in later times than I did then A requisition was made that the blood of the prophets should be avenged This was in instruc I j tions No special importance attached i to it The people covenanted to keep I I themselves holy and pure I remember my washings and there was no importance I or sacredness attached to the avenging business The penalties were applied to the signs passwords etc To LeGrand Young The reason for my excommunication was because I objected to the direction of tho church in temporal matters There was littlo talk about or I Interest in politics We startsd the Mormon Mor-mon Tribune which was changed to the Salt Lake Tribune and I was the first editor There was at our trial a charge that we believed in spiritualism or receiving receiv-ing revelations for the church but that i was not the principal charge The special matter was in what enterprises people should invest their money The movement we engaged in was called the New Movement Move-ment it afterwards drifted into a spiritualistic spirit-ualistic movement The people called us Godbeites There was no charge of spirit revelation though we believed in it I was never personally molested after I left the church My apprehensions were not from tho church but I feared some who were Mormons I once heard a Mormon speak of me in a way that led me to believe he thought I ought to be assaulted To Baskm He said There goes a scoundrel that ought to be shot To LeGrand YoungIn the Endowment house I heard a reference to avenging the blood of the prophets and voted on it We wore also required to live pure and holy lives No persons were mentioned as prophets pro-phets nor was the government or the people peo-ple of the government referred to So little explanation was made of the avenging l aveng-ing and so little attention was attached to it that did not give special heed to it I did not understand that I was to do any avenging I suppose every man interpreted inter-preted it according to his nature Wo claimed to receive revelations at the time of our excommunication An article which I wrote on spiritual gifts was brought up as evidence of our being wrong Communications Communi-cations with the dead which wo considered true were celled false doctrine Brigham Young charged in public with receiving spiritual communications This was before our excommunication His charge was true dont think our spiritualistic communications com-munications were not antagonistic to the doctrines of the church We claimed that the church was right but that Brigham Young was arrogating that which did not belong to him I understand that the church does not now approve the claim made by him I think that no other man claimed it but him To P L WilliamsI think the tendency of the church is to tho view we took When we wero excommunicated wo were denounced publicly as apostates To Mr Moylo It has always been my understanding that the church except this claim of Brigham Young did not control in temporal aftairs I know nothing to the contrary except under Brigham Young I believe his views in regard to temporal affairs were not endorsed by tho people To BaskinI was tried before the high council of the Salt Lake stake presided over by Georgo B Wallace Tho whole priesthood at that date sustained Brigham Young To Moylo I understand that I was bold in great disfavor by the majority but I had no f knowledge that they sustained Brigham Youngs claim We organized a movement that might have antagonized the Mormons to us To the Court Tho names of Joseph and Hyrum Smith were not mentioned in the Endowment house but I understood they were included among the prophets Brigham Brig-ham Young gave no reason for opposing the opening of the mines Wo surmised that he did not want people opposed to the Mormons brought in here From 1801 to 1859 the people felt that tho United States had injured the people and had persecuted them I remember of a charge that the court records were burned but that was not after I came here The feeling I have referred to was general It was considered that the officers of the United States who 1 were here did not have good feelings towards to-wards the Mormons Somo of this feeling related to polygamy The idea of the people peo-ple was that tho government officers did not do them justice The people thought the government was wrong in opposing plural marriage Some irdividuals were very bitter against the representatives of the government in Utah They held the idea that these representatives were hostile hos-tile to the people To BaskinThe people regarded all efforts to oppose polygamy as an act of hostility To the CourtWhen the act of 1803 was passed Brigham Young did not command all the male members of the church to enter polygamy They were not advised as a mass to practice it Those who got special permission were allowed to do so It was taught that the doctrine was true and should be obeyed Those who desired to obey it were not required to pay any money but to obtain permission of the authorities To P L WilliamsI only met in public meetings except prayer circles I was never present on any occasion when it was proposed to put any one to death Never heard a proposition or suggestion to that effect I mad no protest against such a thing because there was no occasion To LeGrand YoungI would have remembered re-membered such a suggestion but there never was anything of the kind R W Young offered in evidence a part of the retard of the house of representatives representa-tives the portion being the deposition of Eli B Kelsey before the house committee where testimony was given that a Liberal meeting was prevented by Mormons filling the hall where some damage was done and that next day President Youngs clerk Thomas W Ellerbcck went to the Tribune and offered to pay it In the affidavit Eli B Kelsey states that there is no obligation taken in the Endowment house that partakes par-takes in any way of disloyalty He also states that there is nothing that interferes with the duties of citizenship and that the people bolievc in and assume allegiance to the kingdom of God yet to come GEORGE KMKDELL I am thQ son of Martin D War dell He is in tho court room I came with him in 1S03 in Captain Dames company com-pany I am not a member of any church Do not believe in Mormonism Remember crossing Green river There was no man killed in our train Father crossed tho plains only once If there had been a man named Green killed flt would have known ir I heard of nothing of the kind I did not drive Greens wagon nor heard of it I only drove my fathers wagon The church gave us the wagon at Florence Nebraska for us to come in and I left tho wagon in the tithing o3ice Never heard father relate this story before Wo came through late in the fall of Ib62 Do not remember Billy Williams or George Snyder No man from our camp was killed Never heard of any man being killed on the trip across the plains To Mr Dickson was sixteen years old There was more than one hundred people In the train There were about thirty families We started from Florence near Omaha Dane was in charge Mark Sur ridge Sargent Dame and our own family are about all I can remember I never heard of a man named Green there A man of that name might have disappeared without with-out my knowing it Father had no team of his own but had one from the church I drove it and he did nothing except that he j drove once in a while I think our wagon was loaded with glass I followed other I wagons into the Tithing yard Our family were Mormons then I left tho church throe years ago I was not cut off but I rkoio quit the business I work for myself in the canon I 10 MoyleA murder might have been committed in the train without my knowledge knowl-edge but I dont think it possible I To DicksonMr blab first spoke to me about this and I told him I knew of none I asked him for my expenses He told me I would get my witness fees I have had my endowments but left the garments off about three years ago ntllOUX DB MOTT I reside at North Point I know Charles Char-les Gillmor His reputation for truth and veracity in the neighborhood where ho resided re-sided is bad To Dickson ho said he was no friend of GilImors and had had trouble with him Gillmor had trouble with lots of people out there He had accused me of injuring his stock but when the case came to trial ho was knocked out I have no hostility I against him because he may have denounced de-nounced the church doctrines I never beard anyone in the neighborhood where bo lives say a good word for him I never knew of him committing any offense against the lawthat I could testify to To LeGrand Young Gillmor had me arrested ar-rested for malicious mischief and tho jury returned a verdict of not guilty OCOItCB SARGENT I I live a Hoytsvillo Summit county and have lived there twentyseven years I I crossed the plains in W H Dames com pany arriving here in 18G2 ThcM wers sixtysix wagons in our train Among those who camo with mo was Martin War dell His team followed mine Some times he drove it and at other times his son drove it I do not remember of a man named I Green being killed in our train I never heard of the caso until I read it in the paper last eveniug when I was told that Wardell had testiliud to such a case and I got the paper and read it I heard of no robbery that year either in our train or any other I never saw any body of men in buckskin in or around our train at anytime any-time To DicksonThere were very few people in the train besides tho teamsters I am a member of the Mormon church Reuben McBride John R Young Mark Surridtre and others were there I did not know of a man by the name of Green Tko only man that died was an old man All the others reacted hero safe and well To Le Grand YoungI do not remember what the name of the man was who died but he was sick whn we started Ho left a family I believe w A nossiTEii I have resided hero twentyseven years Came across the plains in 1862 by ox team Martin War I in W H Dames company dell had his wife and some children with him I know of nomannamed Green being killed in our company Iremembercrossing Green river There was no man named Green in our train and no man was ever killed that I know of I saw no band of men dressed in buckskin and never knew that a man had been killed until I read it in the paper If such a horrible murder had been perpetrated as he describes I certainly should have heard of it To Dickson am a member of the Mormon Mor-mon church I was night guard on the trainDont Dont you think a man could havo been killed and you not know HI No sir Suppose the captain of the train had told them to keep their mouths shut wouldnt I they have done it1 1 No sir I wouldnt Y am not so sure about thatin those days LeGrand Young Well perhaps he is JO3EIII n MOUOAN I crossed the plains in W H Dames company I knewof no man by the namo of Green in the company and no man was i murdered such as was described by Martin Wardell I saw no men dressed in buckskin buck-skin as he described I saw a few Indians I cant see how such a murder could have occurred and I not know anything about itTo To DicksonThere were not very many in the company that I can now recall Hits WKIOHT I am a daughter of Martin Wardell and reside at Milford I camp to Utah twenty eight years ago in Captain W H Dames company I came hero in company with my father I was about twelve years of age at that time but remember tho circumstance cir-cumstance of crossing the plains Never knew of a man named Green being killed or a man by any other name I hears father mention the circumstance about two years ago at first I can account for fathers story only from the fact that ho I lets his imagination play He is conslder abla of a visionary man and always has been My mother does not live with father now He has acted very strangely at times To Dickson am not very fond of father I understand he is an apostate WILLIAM WARDELI I am a son of Martin Wardell Live at East Mill Creek Crossed the plains when I was between eight and nine years of age I never knew of a man being killed in our company and never heard of a man named Green I never heard the instance spoken of in our family and knew nothing about tho occurrence until I read it in the papers I am a member of the Mormon church THOMAS O WEn En I have lived hero twentyfive years and have been connected with the Z C M I since IfetiO I resided in the United States four or five years before I came to Utah I served in the northern army about five years served in the cavalry under Mc Lellan I am a member of the Mormon church and have been through the Endowment Endow-ment house i never took any oath against the government in those ceremonies There was no such ceremony required I do not think I made any promiso to bo obedient to the priesthood in all things neither did I make any covenant in regard to polygamy To DicksonJoined the army in Ib57 and loft in 1803 when I resigned tendering my resignation to Colonel Merritt I came to Utah about twenty days after that time I mado up my mind to come to Utah in 1SGO I went through the Endowment house in 1850 and again when I married in 1SC3 I am one of the quorum of seventies There was nothing said about avenging the blood of the prophets WellJyour right arm was anointed in order that it might be made strong to avenge the death of the prophets That I declino to answer on a point of I honor I have heard that the church claims the right to rule temporarily as well as spiritually Mr Dickson then went on a fishing excursion ex-cursion but returned empt handed To LeGrand YoungThere was no obligation obli-gation taken in the Endowment houso by mo in reference to the shedding of human blood I To DicksonI have never heard the doctrine doc-trine of blood atonement preached and do I not know that it is a doctrine of the Mormon Mor-mon church The JudgeAre you a citizen of tho United States Yes You are aware that the claim is made that no Mormon has a right to be a citizen You decline to answer certain questions on a point of honor Do you think you are more bound to the church than to the government gov-ernment Nol No-l there is nothing in the ceremonies that is treasonable why do you refuse to answer tho questions Because I look upon them in the same manner as a Mason does his oaths There is nothing treasonable in the ceremonies But you are assuming to decide that fact for yourself I decline to detail the ceremonies but I do say there was nothing treasonable To DicksonI am connected with Z C M I and was in the years 1SS4 and 1SS5 I remember the liar being placed at half mast on that building on July 11885 as soon as possible after I hoard of the fact I went and ordered it run up To LeGrand YoungIf there was any oath or affirmation in hostility to the government gov-ernment used in the Endowment house ceremonies I should certainly feel called upon to divulge it My allegiance to the church is not because of alack of allegiance to the government I refuse to answer certain questions that tho government has no interest inTo in-To tho Judge I took an oath to defend the country ordered the flag raised on the cooperative store I did not understand under-stand that the flags were put at halfmast as an expression of tho Mormons against the United States Wo never found out who was responsible for raising the flag save on the city hall which was put up by the city marshal I advised that he be officially rebuked and I think he was so rebuked re-buked T do not remember that I heard that Charley Crow had drawn his pistol and threatened to shoot any man who raised it srcxcEU CLAWSOK I am a member of tho Mormon church and reside in this city Have lived hero thirtyseven years I never took an oath of hostility against tho government of tho United States Have been through the Endowment house To DicksonThere was nothing said about avenging the blood of the prophets when required You aro a member of the church now Yes That is alll PSKInr L WILLIAMS VOTED THE REOULAH TICKET Mr Young then offered in evidence an affidavit of P L Williams which had been used in the case of Maxwell vs Cannon The conteat wherein Mr Maxwell claimed the right to sit in Congress It is as follows fol-lows QAro you a member of or in any way connected with the Mormon church AI am not QFrom what you bare seen of tho Mormon people what do you say of them concerning their disposition as a fair dealing deal-ing and lawabiding community I A Speaking of them as a community I should say of them they aro fairdealing and lawabiding so far as I am acquainted QSlnce your residence here have you ever seen anything to induce you to think that Brigham Young or any other person controls the election here and in any way prevented the people from exercising the right of suffrage AI havo never seen anything that would induce me to think that he attempted at-tempted to prevent anyone from voting as he chose it has been my opinion Irom what Ihave se nj that many of the Mormon voters were largely influenced by what they conceived to be Brigham Youngs pleasure but I suppose they deferred to what they supposed to be the judgment of Brigham Young voluntarily QHae you ever seen anything since your residence in tho territory that would induce you to think that there was any organization connected with the Mormon church called the Danites Destroying Angels or any organization of an unlawful unlaw-ful character connected with the Mormon church 1 AIhave not QlJo you know how often the officers of tho Mormon church are elected AI think at each semiannual conference confer-ence they have been whenever I have attended at-tended conference and I have attended several Crossexamined by Mr Maxwell AI am the law partner of LeGrand Young nephew of Brigham Young QDo you know of the law of Congress of 1862 prohibiting polygamy AI do QYou stated that tho Mormon people as a community wero lawabiding do they abide the law ATo the best of my knowledge they do as a community I believe there are exceptions have heard ol several QIs it not a fundamental doctrine that this law should be disobeyed APolygamy is a fundamental doctrine of their religion I have not been in a position po-sition to Know whether Brigham Young controls the elections or not In 1SOG there was an opposition ticket I voted there the-re lar ticket Bishop Edwin D Woolley ran for councilman or alderman in place of Jeter Clinton and was elected QDld Mr Woolley ever act in the capacity ca-pacity to which he was elected 1 AI think not QDo you know why ho did not ait 1 ANo I did not know I have voted but once in the territory Redirect QVhat person on the regular ticket was dofeatedby the opposition I ALeGrand Young who is now my law partner and a nephew of Brigham Young Recross QVas President Young in favor of LeGrand Youngs election 1 AI do not know impression was that he was in favor of it FOKNIXST OlLL lOn Mr Moyle cfferedevidence that Gillmor the patriot had once been convicted of drawing and exhibiting a deadly weapon and the court adjourned until this morning at 10 oclock u |