Show ti MAIM REPLIES TO GOLLE E ALUMNI s e 1 Deprecates Aspersions Upon j Honesty of Those Interested Inter Inter- Interested r ested in University I. I r TAKES UP THE ARGUMENTS J.- J. Would leI Hl Recent as Much 1 as ns They Any imy IJ c- c V Attempt to Injure i tut tural al College c. c J To The Republican Tho The answer answel of or ork k 4 k Agricultural College alumni alumni to our recent address s claims that the college has lias H 7 college collego students The The commission com com- c mission found seventy one one college students stu- stu dents enrolled an and four fifty In In- In actual fr attendance on tho the da lay day of oC the official l visit at the tIme college The Tho alumni conlen contends contends con- con len tends s that thai the commission erred In Innot ct- ct l not nol allowing that all students In the 1 college above two years rears of or high school schoolwork r. r 4 work are college colleSe and anti not high school r students and aud attempt to lr prOve ve this contention by showing that the college col col- r lege fl freshmen course coun e Is somewhat r identical as to the names of oC the studies pursued with the freshman treshman course at the University which rc- rc quires three years rears of or high school work p V for entrance Hut But the showing is of I no consequence conr unless the aim Is tt top to p prove provo that In the Agricultural college f atory school chool the students learn f as much in two years ears as they do inU In U other similar schools In three years earst ears t. t All schoolmen know Jenow that three years eals beyond w ond the district school is barely U sufficient most universities and colleges eel eel- col col- leges require four years ems for or U sion slon to real college collego work worle and to contend contend con- con L tend that the Agricultural college students with oak two vr v ears cars of should b be considered 1 c college students before Leore the they are arc realty really such I I I Is to beg the question as to tho the number num num- her ber of oC bona title fide college students ts In Ij esch school which was all aJi the commission commission com corn mission aimed to show 1 t Co-t per Capita I The college alumni quotes the tho following following fol fob lowing from the tho report of ot the commission commis sion tilon o General fund for tho U sit sity General fund lor for Agricultural colle college e OO In the tho university lil students p of high h school grade at 4 45 per t capita This taken from rom the time general fund leaves to be divided among t I college collese college col col- lege lese students which would hoor be ho for or each ach student In the Agricultural college grade students at per pr U capita students of oC high school U grade Jrade at 1 15 13 per capita U Total 10 tal This amount taken from the tIme general fund leaves to be divided dl among 71 college e students which would I be bc for each student Itt U t- t Mr Porter proceeds to criticise I these figures of or the commission b by an attempt to show that tho the cost per for college students in the Ag- Ag college is only The Time answer ver maintains that TIme The salaries paid for instruction In i work vork of or college collego o gra grade e amount to A U 1 to be divided 0 amon among H college stUdents This is ticu for Instruction for each student of or colO college col cob m O Je lege e grade The cost per Ier student for forI I buildings equipment Improvements and miscellaneous expenses Is 90 This added to the cost of or instruction makes the total cost per annum for students of or co college eel col 1 Jc lege bege e grade lade This Is Js somewhat Ie- Ie less than It Is an honest representation of or facts U Tho The Insinuation that the commission commis commis- U sion slon is dishonest and anci that the college alumni alone alono are honest homiest In their f f representations Is refuted h J U I J J b by looking at tho the figures of ot both part parr par- par r t ties Foi For FOI since the college collego receives I a year ear for general U. U j y U nance anti and since it has a total of oC cm students if JC the 17 1 students claimed rS r'S to be he of or dollege ollege grade cost only 1 C each cach year ear or a total of or 30 rt then the remaining students i o high school and district 1 school cost the remainder of or a year ear or which is f. f 11 k- k kC C per pcr capita for district and U high school students at the Agricultural W 1 r turn tural college or moro more than six times the usual cost of or district school students stu- stu kit dents dc and more than three times limes the tho usual cost of ot high school students In j other schools Time The commission v d 4 showed that tho the per capita cost of or i one severity college students was moro more i than four times Umes as much in the coll collego collego col- col l lego as In the University Tho The colle collego o 1 alumni t try to amend this by b- giving L. L U 1 m i- i figures which show the cost of or each i i one of high school and district school students to bo Lo over three times r f II a as great as in district schools Where Where- o J In Iii does docs this showing Improve their l- l case Effect Upon A Agriculture i t t They quote In full tull along alons with cerL certain L tam tain references to tho alleged unfair unfair- i- i n nta s of or the commission In abridging this letter in their report a letter from rom Prof ProC Brand which ga says 8 Idaho V Wyoming Nevada and Cal- Cal 9 are aro conspicuous examples of oC Western consolidated schools In the thes cr t s Institutions of oC these states you will 1 l very very few Cew agricultural stu- stu S1 ili nta dt-nta I Idaho aho has haM less than a n. half half- dozen and California comparatively i few considering the tho agricultural wealth and population of or the state This is quoted as a great and overwhelming over over- U whelming argument in favor of or separation separation sep sep- U but are arc our esteemed d friends sure suro that the above quoted attend attend- anco arace Is for tor students of or college grade So that had Utah a conspicuous example example ex ex- ample of or Western Vestern separated schools been on added to the list tho the Agricultural collego o of or Utah would have proudly proud stood out with Just nine nino students I From the same letter they quote a table showing that tho the consolidated a agricultural f schools of oC certain states named have havo tho the following number of oC agricultural students Illinois Minnesota California HiS Nebraska Ne Ne- braska Ohio 29 Tennessee 40 10 While the separate schools of oC agriculture In the states named below have ha the following relatively greater attendance Iowa Michigan Washington 13 Canvas anas In Indiana In- In diana Mississippi 15 But the comparison proves no nothing thins unless accompanied accompanied accompanied ac ac- ac- ac companied h by a statement of oC the relative relative relative rela rela- tive amounts of or money devoted to agriculture agriculture ag ag- ag- ag In each of oC the schools named and also a a. statement as to the classi classi- or grade of oC the students In the schools compared On tho the other hand scores of or similar simi simi- lar bar letters the overwhelming maU ma- ma U In fact tact were received by the commission and similarly abridged favoring consolidation of or the hl higher h r schools schoos President Van Hise of oC Wis Wis- for Cor c example amplo says MS that thal tho the A Agricultural Ag Ag- college of or that state united with tho tue university has moro than thun 1000 students Effect l Upon Attendance Itc The cull college c alumni attempt to show how that fewer fewel students would attend the he schools If IC united than If kept separate because The uThe students In ml any college c come comae from a I. I radius of a few fes' miles This stat statement I Is perfect If applied to district schools Is fairly but hut by hy byno no 10 means wholly applicable to hl high h schools IN and has least least- application to real college students who number in in In Utah scarcely Undoubtedly If Ir there were cre three hl higher state schools Instead of oC two t this number might be bo Increased to to say ay But Bul If Ir In Instead In- In stead strad of making three or 01 more mor higher high high- er CU I schools as the time argument of or Mr 11 Porter would Indicate to be the best hest course we should establish h a n large number of oC local high schools and limit the tIme students of or college e grade to toone toone toone one institution we should multiply the time number of oC students receiving hl high bight h school training h by about the exact ex ex- act net number of or high schools school so NO es es- es- es And Alti since the college on Its own showing howin Is mostly hi high h school then b by establishing the moro more usual kinds of high schools school In man many towns Instead of or maintaining one unusual form mm of high school In one town on only Logan the ratios sties of gain ahl would be bo measured b by the number of hl high h schools so brought within the reach of oC the p people A college In each county would increase but little the number of college e students student In the th state for one une college could do tin nil nfl the higher work while a high school In each county and In each of or tho ho larger larg er em towns would multiply th the number of oC hl high h school students Since Sinco we cannot h have lve numerous high bight schools and also several Re colleges or universities universities ties the greatest good to the thc workIng working working work ing men and women omen would require the concentration of or the lie higher institutions Into one efficient school and the dissemination of oC the high schools school throughout hout th the state On February 10 1906 the com commission commis sion found Cound hut but nine students In iii agriculture agriculture agriculture agri agri- culture in the Agricultural college colleg above three years eat 0 of high school gla grade e. e The They found college students students students stu stu- dents pre present ent in the school of oC mines at the tho university the da day before beCore Who rho Is s willing to say that there would be behalf half as man many if Jf the school of mine mine- existed alone In some other I town toun of or orthe the he state stale Mr MI Porter apparently feat fears that hat the Industry of oC agriculture would lose Jose its dignity lI If lc the study were ere associated as ns- with the stud study of ur other In In in- Would not the ef effect ef- ef feet be produced Would not more men study agriculture and certainly with more pride if IC Insl Instead 1 of jf retirIng ing lug to a II small corner cornet of he time t 2 tate thoy they could cOuIl Stud study It In a greater school side by Ide side with men who are arc studying study tudy- ing other industries ire ne is not dignified b by isolation The assumption assumption assumption as as- as- as that the university would operate against the education l o cf working men and women is uttel utterly without a knowledge of oC the tho f facts Th university exists for or the Lime state Itson Its own on students drawn awn from Crom the time h homes me meo o of tho the state arc largely of or the industrial in in- in classes anti and receive a practical practical cal eal training for practical useful and intelligent work vork Moral Influence The fact that Salt Lake City o offers many more mOle opportunities for the needy student to earn money rh Urn the col col- col lege alumni do not attempt t to con tro ert But the they retaliate with an attack upon the moral Influences of ofa ofa a a. larger larser city Travelers Tra often orten compare comparo com corn pare paro groups of young Qung people similarly similar similar- ly iy trained un under er the samo sort of home influences and church life lire In personal life lire refinement control lr and freedom from from v bilu-v the advantage Is invariably in favor or ot of the city groups There Is evil In a city or In a small town which a student or 0 an anybody body else elso ma may find if IC he ho seel seeks 8 it but the time influence under which the student dent naturally comes in a a. city cuy is IN the tue InflUence o ot 01 culture culture cul cul- cul ture religion and amid of truer subjection to law than In a rural town to I Educators of or keen observation have declared that the morality of students In the larger larg er cr town is superior to that of oC students students stu stu- stu- stu dents In the smaller town But tho the plan proposed It is to eliminate high school students from ft tho the university and to J keep them theta under their own home Influences during their youthful years eals IC If the college alumni sincere sincere- I ly question the ab ability II It of or students of or college grade grado to con conduct themselves properly In a city tIle they question the time propriety of oC the tho existence of or such universities as Harvard Yale Colum Colum- bia bla Penns Pennsylvania Chicago and oth oth- ers The Time supposed Increase In Iii the cost of or board boar in Jim a cit city as compared wilh ith a rural town If IC it bo o a fact is exaggerated In iii Mr h Porters Porter's letter Jetter and anti andIn In iii an any event would bo lie cheerfully patti paid b by the college collego student for Cor the educational edu ad advantages vantages of or a u. city Duplication of ot Courses cs Mr 11 Porters Porter's letter revives re a matter matter mat mat- ter which was fully Cully considered and settled settle by law Jaw during the tho last see see- bion sion of ot the legislature While the I school chool of mines did not h by separate name exist as a department of or tho the university till lii 1 1901 01 yet et courses In en engineering engineering engineering en- en were given in the university as early as 1892 By the enabling act approved Jul July 16 16 1894 1594 the uni- uni was granted acres o of land for or the establishment and maintenance maintenance main main- of oC a a. state school of or mines which was established with mining and electrical engineering courses In pursuance of oC that provision The Thc curses courses Pt in lu civil and m mechanical en engineering n en- grew out Omit of the CUrses courses es in mining und and cl engineering because because be hc- cause of or tho the absurdity of or ln Jea leaving them out Dr DI Merrill director of oC the school of or mines mimics proved before the thc legislature that the n additional cost Ii to the tIme university of oC courses In itt mechanical me mc- and anti civil engineering after 1 It had been equipped to give courses In mining and anti electrical engineering was not more mOIe than pc per r annum an an- num for fOI the tho reason rc that hint the services PI of not a n. single lc additional professor l or oror or in instructor would bo be needed It was wat further shown 11 that with time the single exception xe of oC a three-hour three subject sub sub- Jcl In Irrigation liTigation all nil the engineering nd other work worl prescribed 1 by the Agricultural college In its courses In civil and mechanical en engineering was as given at time the university If it be In Insisted cJ that time the engineerIng engineer engineer- Ing lug courses are u-e older r In iii the college than in the university then we hove have this Interesting fact The school of oC mines after arter only five fi years ears accor accordIng accord accord- Ing to Mr 11 Porter has college e students whereas the A Agricultural tonal college In all nil Its IL departments department after aCter fifteen years eaIS has only college e students antI and a third of oC these would not rank rani as at college students In the tho school of oC mines Land for fot- Agriculture Tho The college alumni assert that if IC I combination were wele effected tho time sit city sity would not have enough |