Show INTERVIEW WITH MU dilt I 1 I 1 T TEMpi RAyCE PA anch ance lecture lec 1 rakes A nii xii lyean itean iame idue r arx i 1 I 1 I 1 1 17 I 1 ax arturd saturday ay morning morning I 1 mr JA john fi niah io lof lt the colito editorial riu rik staff oi 0 f the news baff scott ati ali derson proceeded to the walker for the purpose of colv conversing ersin wita with mr john B gou gough goush ah they met the renowned temperance advocate bd boe bem fore fofe deac hing I 1 the rebut iu in consequence of other cu engagements age ments he was unable decord tb accord an interview deith til half past I 1 four in the afternoon at that le N L allder alider P son nir air 0 0 F Whitney of the NEW and mr junius P V we wells velis s mr gough gh in his apart apartments me ants there was plesent also mr nir lynn flynn of the tho lecture bureau mr aim nicholson mr gough N wen wun 00 all attended your lecture la last st evening and were highly entertained the views you fou iou expressed were strictly in accord width ih our own the 11 arst time I 1 heard 63 re was when I 1 was waa a boy in ift 1834 1854 at tu barwick on tweed a tuu s small mall town on the english border I 1 also aiso heard you sou in liverpool twice th in when nhien you had such immense audiences in in neugie Heugle rs cir clr circus us editor I 1 of the contributor called at the hotel and were veres cordially received by mr ift whitney I 1 also heard you lecture in onlo several years ago mr IV go gourdi h well weli gentlemen I 1 am lim gT atIlle tb lear that I 1 altomer abiol ded you plem piew pleasure ure by my lecture last e evening ve ning aird aidt da I 1 esteem thia thit vi gitas it mr hir perhaps youlace yo you not aware ot of tbt tact act that probably the strongest stron stroh gest fight lor loii I 1 tem temperance that ever took place on this continent has been milade mane in iti utah b by the mormon community when T t came to this territory in carly darly garly time k there there were practically no llo drinking saloons and no 0 dru drunkenness AVAne as but in opposition to the lapi laws saloons were established br nom noti mormons cormons Mor mons and griat antagonism which they lvere ivere vere enabled to successfully exercise was ivas due to influence from A quarter would least epco e it I 1 t mr A I 1 r gough goush G 0 u I 1 TV rv did ald not tile the local ni til mr nicholson because tile the pure purely local jurisdiction went no higher than justices tho the courts which took a A proper stand on the subject but the cases were ere taken on appeal peal to the district and supreme courts of the territory presided over by U S offic lai ia wha ru in abor of the m men annn antt sf ruined rained cony established precedents which enabled the liau liquor or traffic to gradually gain jhb foothold it now as asa 4 fumes mr gough I 1 should hive have opposed opposed such a against agrain st temperance no ilo matter from f rom ram what source 1 pr on by bad had been instituted mr hir nicholson hin in view of the noble genero generous usand and humane sentiments ex press pressed ed ln irr your lecture in lat evening a and t the he apparent between them and wand thoe those attribute attributed fl to vou in an alleged interview published pu b dished in this mornings tribune we vve called to ask whether have been correctly represented by paper mcgough Mr air I 1 dough gough hesitatingly I 1 saw aw whal what was avas published in the tile cand I 1 cannot deny that anth in the tho c main uain it expresses my may V views levs regarding one element ot it 3 for mo niini onisia as 1 I it the tho polygamous mo s id lenient element I 1 mean some things at ati 1 tributes tri trl buted to me moe by the reporter I 1 old oid notary not say I 1 told him when he asked for my views on the subject of mormonism that I 1 was entirely ignorant of it not pot having read any of your books not given it any study whatever I 1 felt competent however to express myself in regard to polygamy which I 1 cannot tolerate thatis I 1 said isaid it thase things thing sue abe true i b i nir dir mr air I if f things be true i mr air foual boneh welli you hold dont tatt abatt iman aman may have more wives align the same time lime u i mr air under certain regulation sand conditions that is a part of our religion n ant ann 1 gough HI phi said thatah a man could have two wives he coull bouli haye fifty or a hundred 1 mr dir ni to that method of reasoning logically jogl Jogi cally caily if a malic matic can have one wife he ilet nan ran have alve or fifty Js Is that thai not mot sa ough i mr mn gough i a little yes yes certainly it is ca candidly n admitted admit teti that it is doubtful whether hether mr G would havet haxel made sion siou had bad lie he jully fully comprehended the drift of his interrogators inter rop rog atolls indea mr boug i evi had no suspicion th atthe I 1 d ari w a reporter lie ile had neither igei ma lier ller pencil nor paper and I 1 had the 3 s idedo I 1 that I 1 was express expressing im illy my opinion to a private iu I 1 1 nm am in the habit of expressing my views plainly when they are requested mit out I 1 should not have said I 1 did for publication i now I 1 do not wish tobay to say gay that akrap was sprung upon me riebe because I 1 do not wish to lay such an accusation cusa tion against 1 anyone but I 1 do say gay that I 1 was inadvertently led to bip express ress things in in may private private room which I 1 did not intend for or the public mr you tou ara aro to have said I 1 hat you would not permit a polygamist to call upon upolu you dir air mcgough gou hi h did not say it itin in that that thai way yay f said sald that I 1 I 1 not invite an immoral man aver ver ii my I 1 ay iy thre threshold dand ani aal of course looking upOn polygamy as immoral immorality my imy remark could have bave beep beell readily construed as etwas vas I 1 wish to say here though that I 1 have nothing agali agall against rist Mormonism sin as an ism I 1 concede ce to all the hight bight to bellave believe avlia wh al they think proper and E k re respect sincerity t in anyone cven even in a hindon bd bowing down to a god od of wood or stone stona jn in referring to the Mor mormon 1 used no such buch iau ian language guage as slush and alid balderdash 11 s A mr r nicholson there where are many peo vie pie Y hold views entirely different te those you ou gheri cheri shand to them those views are arc religiously sacred acred fc there Is also a possibility that they are right and you are in error should not pot the fact of their views being sacred to them also make them sobered to you Is this not a proper general principle to act upon between man and mant man nir dir mr Air gough I 1 most decidedly concede every point you ou advance in that respect t r ut B mr fr nicholson plural ma marriage r r lag e or polygamy as it is termed is a pure holy and ami urke sacred ins institution tit ut wn in n t the estimation of the tho mormon pj ople popie you have hase placed it without investigation vesti gation gatlon u pan the level of the fol foi polluting and degrading evil of prostitution n i to w which aich i it is th the e very antipodes in every respect in thus expressing yourself it does not appear that you have acted upon the principle gf fairness which you concede to be correct in taking this extreme position against what ilis llis great part of of the community esteem as sacred yo you yon a have so far as your influence extends in injured anred rather than aided the cause you represent mr I 1 rough sough 1 I regret very much jf if any aue sue such h effect shall shail result from I 1 may r have said a and nd I 1 shail shill shallie sh allbe alibe be more careful in f future suture about expressing myself but I 1 have been told that there are many good mor alor mons imons who repudiate polygamy and desire to see it done away with 1 mr nicholson icholson JS you have been mis unformed oll on that point if there are member members of the church who enter tain such views they are not good 4 mormons cormons Mor mons not being in full faith falth mr wells mr gough I 1 depre represent lent zent an organization in this territory of over ten thousand young men who have as one of the nardi cardi cardinal zik zaw principles of their association temperance they have looked upon you as the Yore tore foremost most champion of temperance in the christian world and nave have much admired the bold stand you have taken and tho the elevating sentiments jou iou are in an the habit of expressing in your lectures as being in f full fuli ull uli sympathy with the views they entertain anthe on the same saine subject hundreds and thousands of these young men owe their existence tp the very principle you have denounced that ot of poly polygamy gainy an to tb them and and in thus b branding their fathers father lahd mothers as immoral and degraded and themselves as the offspring of vice you have struck a fearful blow at yourself iu in their estimation they know that their thein parents parent s are not impure but ut have taught 11 their children the principles of temperance em perance and purity from the cradle I 1 myself 0 owe we my luy existence to that principle win nin ciple tiple and consequently speak from positive tive experience and understanding in n weber county alone there are I 1 1100 I 1 ol 01 members osof of tile society I 1 reer t to 0 and a if you had lectured lecture I on temperance under tinder their auspices I 1 could have guaranteed you a logo loog 1000 house I 1 could ifould i not do so now for I 1 fear what you have mald maid said sald or are reported to have bave sald said ald hal hat hasl made it an impossibility MrK mr nicholson icholson I 1 1 perceived by voun toun zour your lecture mr gough that you yon believe in iii the bible beff Befi believing eving in the inspiration of that record you yon must admit that god sanctioned and sustained poll poli polygamy mr ar ganly gough no ican not allow that he sanctioned it lie he merely permitted tt uti mr hir Nicholson If time would permit I 1 could easily bruve from the record which I 1 have in iny my pocket that he not only onix sanctioned and sustained but enjoined and regulated it bat but this would prolong the interview mr gough 1 I am a friend to investigation ti atlon ibave heard a great many statements in regard to mormonism or monism and it you can prove to me that it is true I 1 through the world worl dand and pre tich it till I 1 die I 1 am willing to be come informed upon the subject mr me whitney rin aln rin min investigating the subject mr gough try and imagine yourself an inhabitant of the world over elgh eighteen teen centuries ago when another peculiar sect 11 everywhere spoken evil eyll of made its appearance and a nd rega regarding which a great many statements were made and when it required as much courage to becomer bec omea christian as it now does doer to become a latte day saint at that time men were expected to cast aside all prejudice and false tradition and seek geek for the kingdom of god on their own responsibility mr wells if you would mormonism nisin in the ilie sain espirit which you enjoin upon those who are struggling tru lin to overcome the appetite f fo ria grink io to asa asla ovod Glod honestly you yon would soon be convinced of its truth mr nicholson I 1 could not help admiring mr nir gough the noble humane and beautiful idea which permeated your lecture in reference to reclaiming the fallen you deprecated the practice of denouncing and holding aloof from them you s strenuously advocated the opposite course of seeking down into the depth of their souls for the lingering spark ohman of manhood and fanning it into a flame I 1 could not help contrasting that view denunciatory attitude to ward wara darothe the mormons cormons and their institutions even if they are degraded degna d ed which gismot is not the case condemnation would not tend to elevate them you are arc reported to have said that you won would id as soon goto a Ivar variety lety sh show owl as to th the e tabernacle in ddn sunday mr gough I 1 did not say what was attributed to me in that respect I 1 said I 1 would go to no place on sunday from a motive of curiosity and that is what would take me to the tabernacle I 1 would not go to any charch church on sunday but my own another point on which I 1 have been misrepresented was in reference to mr beecher I 1 ild iid lid did not couple coupie his hla name with mormonism at all in my conversation with the tribune reporter I 1 merely stated thatty that my estimate of mr beecher had chang chaug changed e d because he had changed hir bir nicholson our visit to you mr gough is in the spirit of friendliness you are engaged iu a good cause causo and we vye wish you success 8 we might h have av injured yon you chadwe had ive be been so disposed p ased we knew that you had spoken in bitter denunciation of the lear lmar i mons and their institutions t djie whitney a member of the staff of th tle the 4 e NEWS having heard you express air yn self seif in that vein at elyria ohio laiq if I 1 1 T had published publish eI that fact and s stand ta nd against you ou you would ab haa hla haw practically fat r ac spoken spoken to empty cha in last evening 1 nut hut believing thit tuat lolar jolar our position was vas yas due towa tows lack of of information we considered that an act 0 of f that kind on would have betrayed a paltry spirl spirita tm which the NEWS does not descend dencen d now that you have come here and ha had the chance to investigate for your yourself geif gelf the situation has changed and have today to day refrained from hom hostile e expression x which would have damaged your prospects in ogden II 11 ft 1 air gough 1 I t do 16 not tit 0 lecture in ogden I 1 have been telephoned i to from that place asking if j 1 had expressed myself us as reported report edila edSia lir tile the tribune and on answering amm aff affirmatively at ht ab far as polygamy was coff berned received tL nother another message thai that it was doubtful about my getting yta audience mr Nt cholson in your leeter yeat elyria you quoted from the salt lake laki tribune w which bell Is probably the unscrupulous unprincipled foul ean fan aj scurrilous sheet ever published 4 face of the earth A 1 I mr gough I 1 think you are mista mistaken keh ket in regard J to my quoting that paper 11 31 mr i whitney 1 I was there ir amri fr I 1 gou gough h and tind heard you quote and wrote a report of your lecture to the salt lake herald knowing th thul thui e utter unreliability and aud depraved clearl char acter of the paper which you used a yogi your authority 1 I was surprised that 60 intelligent a gentleman as your yourself seu should have been deceived by it lt it was the lecture on blunders that 1 I he heard ard mr gough well perhaps I 1 may liaro C in mentioned it as an episode although it is not cot in jhn the manuscript of my led lec J ture in speaking extemporaneously extemporaneously ra a lecturer often branched branches out ideas that occur keur to him at the momen i I 1 wish you had told me of it at the e ahn 1 mr whitney I 1 have been hoping ever since that you would corner come to utah and find out your mistake for yourself which I 1 am sure you may maydah deli deti with avith even cursory investigation N fl j MW mr wells tho the impression mad dadeh madi b your lecture upon myself and fr eg f was very tiery favorable we had heard headd such things all dur our lives mr bir Nic nolson in oth other r words w gough YOU gorf rouf were preaching monism without knowing it ar mr nir whitney do you not think A gough cough that the same percept perception in which enabled us to granland gran grand dand and aud noble truths embodied in your lecture would also qualify quality asto uto f perceive any element of loathsomeness r in polygamy if such an element clement really existed f mr goue go ugh gh I 1 beg you will not hot think f that |