Show DISCOURSE by elder J JOHN OHN TA TL OR L delivered in in the tabernacle Mer nade salt sait lake cus cuy sunray sunday afternoon match vatch 3 1872 I 1 REPORTED BY DAVID W EVAS EVANS WE meet together from time timo to time timo to speak to hear and to reflect upon things pertaining r jerta ining to the kingdom of go god 1 and the interests and happiness of i humanity human humai ity to strengthen cheer and ins instruct duct to teach and bo be taught on things that pertain to our happiness and in time and in eternity As a people we differ in very many respects from the world with which we are associated oun bouc ideas reflections and belief with regard to deity are differ different ent ont to those of the world our ordinances also vary from those which are in existence among the christian world wo we have our reasons for this difference they perhaps have theirs we place god t his service ana and his worship as aa among the first things that ought to attract our attention considering Con considering ourselves ours elves elvea immortal as well as mortal mortal beings and having to do with time and eternity with things future as well as present it has been our study for years to t try r to form correct opinions and ideas in r relation edtion to those things which pertain to our everl everi everlasting astin welfare in doing this we have not been desirous generally to td court the good feelings or approbation of men we know that mankind vary very much in their ideas in relation to these matters and if desirous we could coald not follow them because they do not agree but we have been desirous as far as lay fay in our power I 1 to seek beek the approbation of the almighty and of an approving conscience for in religious matters it is with these we have lo 10 do we consider that wo we are engaged in a WO work rb that will affect us and our posterity after us for innumerable generations in a work in which both the living and the dead are interested and acting in the fear of god and with a reference to eternal roal real realities we try to square our conduct and regulate our actions in such a manner that we may stand approved of all good me men n and of the holy angels that we may be approved p roved of the virtuous and good who have f jived ired ived on the earth and of the virtuous and good who may hereafter live upon it for we consider as aa we are eternal eings beings that things perM pertaining ning to eternity are ol of a great deal more importance than the evanescent transitory things pertaining to time and sense which speedily pass away we find one thing literally true Rs aa spoken of by the serl seri scriptures that it is appointed for men once to die and thab that the teeming millions who now inhabit this earth have only existed upon it for a very short time and will only continue to exist for dqra a short time 0 o come and as we have supplanted the millions who have gone before us so also shall we be supplanted by millions who will follow after us and as wo wb believe in an eternity and in future rewards and future punishments in future exaltations and future degradations as ass we believe that this life la Is simply a probationary state we feel desirous to act as w wise lse ise prudent prudant intelligent tell igent beings squaring our lives and d actions according to tho the high position trtat we occupy before god and before the holy angels we are not satisfied as aa many men are with simple theories because this that or tho the other man or bodien of mer have told us they are true we are governed b by y no mans man apse ipse dixit we lave have not nol rny any particular tic ulai dogmas to sustain or any special theory to establish in tho world of mankind surrounded surround ed bythe bytho by the works of nature walking as it were inthe presence ot of the great E loholm boholm EIo elo helna hoina wo we wish to comprehend and truth trul hand and ana seek for and aind obtain everything that ls is la 13 calculated tp exalt ennoble and dignify the human family and wherever we re nind und truth no matter where or from what source it may come 1 14 becomes part and ad parcel darcol of oui religious creed if you plemo ar or our olif cal creed or our moral creed breid or our oun philosophy a as the CASO cato may boor beor whatever you ou may please to term it I 1 we are open for the reception cfall of all ali truth nature it may be and aro desirous to obtain and possess ity it to search after has hns we would for hidden treasur treasurer eli eni and to use all the knowledge god gives to us to 6 possess ourselves or of all the intelligence that he has given to other othere and to ask at his hands to reveal unto us hla his will in regard to things that are the best calculated to promote the happiness and of human society if there are any good principles any moral philosophy that we have not cot yet attained to we are do de airous to learn them if there is ia anything in the tho scientific world that we do not yet comprehend we desire to become acquainted with it if there is any branch ol of philosophy calculated to promote the well being cf humanity that we have not yet grasped r asbed we wish to possess ourselves of ft it tf there thero is anything pertaining to the rule and government of nation or politics if you please that we are not acquainted with we desire to possess it if there are any religious religions ideas any theological truths any principles pertaining to td god that we have not lear learned nea neu we ask mankind mandina and we pray god our heavenly father to enlighten gur our minds minda that we may comprehend realize embrace and live up to them as part olour our religious faith mthr thus our ideas and would extend as far as the wide 1 4 I world etar everything per ert buys ihyo 1 1 i i 9 alb 0 lo 10 l o i kalning laining to light life or existence pertaining to this world or the world that is to come they would dig into the bowels of the earth or go to the depths of hell if you please they would soar after the intelligence of the gods that dwell in the eternal worlds they would grasp everything that la Is good and noble and excellent and hap hab elfving playing and calculated to promote the eing of the human family samily there is no man nor set of men who have pointed out the pathway for our feet to travel in iff relation to these matt mate there are no dogmas nor theories extant in the world that we profess to listen to unless they can bo verified by the principles of eternal truth we carefully scan investigate criticize and examine everything that presents itself to our view and so far as we are enabled to comprehend any truths in a existence we gladly hall them as part and portion of the system with which wo we are associated we are quite willing that others should be governed by the dogmas theories and notions of men just as much as they cloaie wo we do not have confidence in them they may won worship chip god as the tho they thoy T please it la Is none of our business it Is a matter between them and their god we may think in many instances their acts are foolish but if they have hare a mind to bo be foolish that is not our business they perhaps entertain the same opinion in relation to ua uri but we do feel in regard to moral and religious religions ideas that we are engaged in a sacred cause and andi andreat that tEat while man manwill with with wilh all their combined combined com hinea binea cissom wisdom and intelligence have been unable to introduce and establish systems that are good elevating and ennobling we think t there gre one is a being w who ho lives in the heavens superintending super intending the affairs of the human family who Is wor shipped by the great mass of humanity in one form or another a great power that is capable of instructing guiding directing and regulating the affairs of men as aa by eternal laws he be governs all nature and regulates the planetary system whilo on the one hand we are willing that thai others should worship him in what manner they please we have a right to the pame privileges rights nights TI ts and immunities and possessing our se selves ves of this idea we take the liberty to do so 80 there are two things I 1 have always said I 1 would do and I 1 calculate to carry them out living or dying one Is to vote for whom I 1 please and the other to worship god as I 1 please there is a principle of freedom planted in the human mind that has always existed there and no man nor any power has ever yet been able to obliterate I 1 it believing as we do we take the liberty to believe tho the bible which our follow fellow Christ christians lans ians generally throughout tho the world profess to believe in whether they do so BO or not we read in that sacred volume that holy men of old as they we were removed moved upon by ghost this to many seems perhaps singular phraseology but it is nevertheless true and if they did not whence came this sacred volume how do men at the present day learn anything pertaining to god who puts them in possession of any information relative to holy angels to a heaven and a hell to the plans and purposes of god pertaining to the earth whereon wo we live and its inhabitants who revealed anything pertaining to future rewards and punishments and how did jho iho theologians of the day become acquainted with these principles where did they get their knowledge from they tell you from the bible That bible Bibe would never have been in existence if holy men of old had not spoken as aa thoy they were moved upon by the hobai holy ghost if reen raen in former times had not had bad revelation from tho most high if angels had not ministered to them if they had bad not had J revelations and the dark curtain of futurity had not been withdrawn from their minds and they had not hot been bee ben n enabled to gaze upon tho purposes rf of god as they should roll forth in future generations if such old fogles as some call tb them cm had not we should have hadano had no bibo biblo no Chrls chris christian christla tia tta religion nothing to gulde guido our feet that Is ig so far as records are concerned if the heavens had always been as many would have us ua believe they arg arp now as brass over our heads beads and god had beon been deaf to the entreaties of humanity wd wo should shoula have had no christian or mosaic religion or any religion giving any knowledge of god or his purposes we profess forsooth la in this generation of enlightenment with all aniam with all its diversities of opinions ideas theories and dogmas with a thousand different professedly religious parties to bo wiser than that man who ho said sala thero there was one ozelor On eLor lord one faith one ono baptis mone god who is above all through all and in a you all ay people nowadays now a days think the religion they had in those days might do for a barbarous age but we are so enlightened so intelligent so philosophical that wo we are altogether ahead of those old fogies bogies who lived somo some time ago and conversed with god goa and had angels minister to them now I 1 have frequently said and say today to day the lord god deliver me from the enlightenment enlighten menty the corruption and evil throughout the world at the present en t time and give me some of that religion that ancient men of god had who as they were moved upon by the holy ghost I 1 would like to associate with men whom god would talk with and that angels would communicate intes inteli to and that the heavens could be bd opened to that could haye hayo hav the tee P of n 1 ya ti TL v god unfolded to them that could comprehend the object of the creation of the world whereon we live the object of the existence of man and his future destiny as an eternal intelligent being I 1 want to know whence I 1 came I 1 want to know what I 1 am doing here what is the object of my existence I 1 want to know something about the world whereon I 1 live nive the object of this beautiful creation with which I 1 am surrounded and its destiny and if there is a god who rules in the heavens and superintends super intends the affairs of the universe I 1 want to know something about him whom to know knew I 1 am told is life everlasting if there is a religion that will teach me that that I 1 iq the religion I 1 want and anything short of that I 1 would not give the ashes ofa rye ryo straw for people may take their philosophy and their christian their lity and their intelligence and chuckle over their supposed superiority for what I 1 care if I 1 can only get no acquainted ont fainted with god and know comet something ing of his is law of the principles of eternal truth if I 1 can learn how to save myself and my posterity be placed in a position that I 1 can obtain promises from god as abraham did that should reach down through every subsequent period of time until the final winding up scene and then stretch forward into the eternity that is to come As an eternal intelligent being these are some of the thoughts reflections and ideas that come through my mind and I 1 can not be satisfied with anything less others may maybe be glad to sit and sing themselves away as they ignorantly sing sometimes to everlasting bliss 11 they may worship a god without body parts and pau passions lons ions or g go und to a heaven somewhere beyond the bo bounds of time and space I 1 would ifould like to be as asa Abraham Isaac jacob jesus the prophets those honorable men who had communication with god and that he waa not ashamed of and as one of the apostles ia ar bays goa godias god was wag not ashamed to be called th their air bod god for he had provided for them acety a city 11 I 1 want to seara search for a tangible rod red re a allty lit L iga a city that hath foundations whose bultjer builder and maker is god as the scriptures speak of a city that one of those ans clent men of god when under the in spiras tion of the almighty had a vision of and contemplated its glory we are seeking in the first place to regenerate enera e ours ourselves v and then under the guidance and direction of the almighty to regulate t the e world in which we live we we know no that this is not very popular but that makes no difference to us so far as we ourselves are concerned wo we know precisely where we stand so BO far as the world is concerned as to the reception of our ideas by them that is their business and gods business The tho they have to do with him and we have to do with him we are in his hands and all the world of mankind are in his hands and he will manage manago and control them and dictate and regulate them accord according ing to the dictates of his will and not according to my iny theories or yours or any other persons and the judge of nil nii aletho tho the earth will do right this people know what they are doing and they know precisely their position whether others do or br not what hass hafg called you out from among the tha nations you who are here before me I 1 speak now to latter day saints you who heard the sound of ohp gospel in tilo the tho V arlous various lands that you came from when the el ders dera came and preached unto you it was something vil vii like ilke 0 the position of laul paul of old I 1 their words came to you with power an and d demonstration fina and with the holy ghost 11 and their words and testimony and spirit responded to that spirit which was in your bosoms and you hailed their testimony as a message of light and you obeyed it you went forth into the wat waters ers era of baat baptism ism amid the scorn contu conti mely moly reproach and contempt of the world religious philosophical and moral inspired by the fire of t rutlt you tou rou braved tho the aholo whole of it by tho harng spirit and influence you have havo been gathered together hero hore as you aro uro are today in this city and in these thesa valleys of the through throughput but bul the length and breadth of this territory your idea ideal i were based on |