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Show I .... i j j 4 i ! I P V" 7 Li ill! t . Interview: Slurges relates history to youth a ; j By Nazir F. Kahn (Editor's Note: Second in a continuing series of articles in which the Chronicle intends to express the views of University faculty members.) Students clamor to be re-appraised by the older generation. The older generation supposedly does nothing to bridge this mythical "generation-gap." We forget that there is no clear demarcation. Youthful opinions fade into elderly opinions by unnoticeable degrees. There is communication up and down the line if one but tries. In an article last year, the Chronicle indicated that the University administration may be too rigid; there was a semblance of the "We and They" idea. Dr. Phillip Sturges wrote an article in have the kind of zeal, and the energies to work hard to change many of the ossified ways of doing things. I have one reservation (and this may be the usual way in which the older generation tries to abuse the younger generation): I think that students sometimes worry more about their rights than they do about their responsibilities. But, that may not be as serious as some others of my generation make it out to be. Students in the '60s have to be given more voice in University affairs. In my own department, we're setting up a student advisory committee. And we hope that students become more involved in the grass-roots. Students can be a powerful force for good. There is one danger I can see. Students may some day lose sight of the vital role of the University Sturges: A step in the right direction. However, if it is to be considered a respectable discipline, it must be taught that way. It shouldn't be taught with the idea of improving the self-image of the Negro. Of course, a great deal of accomplishments have been ignored that have not been of the WASP variety. We need, for example, to know a great deal more about the Negro's cultural contributions. I am interested myself, in something that the modern Negro tends to look down upon-the development of Negro folk music and Negro jazz. To the modem Negro that smacks of slavery or downtrodden existence. But actually it is a tremendous contribution to the whole world. Some Europeans have called this folk music and jazz, the most significant cultural export of the American people. Americans have always beet intolerant and we have a good deil of self-righteousness, and that is our seamy side. That is probabh the most undesirable aspect of th'i American people. Khan: What do you think o American foreign relations? I Sturges: We've had a picture o 1 ourselves as internation; policemen. We think of ourselve T as "the great keepers of U peace." Yet, I think, quite a h Americans realize that we hat-helped hat-helped to divide the world into a: least two camps... J I think, that our foreign polin r is in a state of flux. Containment is too expensive and since '45 tin; has been our policy. We may be ready to abandon it. Khan: Turning back to our on: campus...I understand that yo. IT are Chairman of the Appei F Board of the Student-Facul: Committee. What is the functit "" of this board? If by revolution we mean violence... I think that Americana are not ready for that...I don't believe that violence is in the cards yet.. .but, I may be living in a dream world, too. If the American dream isn't made more available, something might happen... Khan: Do you think that Americans have typically been a peaceful people? Sturges: No, no. We have been a people much addicted to personal violence. A lot of that is in our history. But, sweeping change via violence has not been typical of the American people. Personal violenceyes, but not violence for a cause. Khan: How many wars that the U.S. has participated in would you consider "justifiable wars?" Sturges: Well, you know, we have been fiercely nationalistic. Also, we have been a people with a strong sense of destiny. And that has a good side and a bad side. We have, for example, every time we needed to take territory (especially in North America and the Pacific) we believed that we were extending the blessings of the best government possible and reply, claiming that the "stubborn" label for the administration was unjustified. That may be true. We're here together. We may all have to get on the ball. Khan: Why do you think that a student in the '60s should concern himself with the study of history? Sturges: Well, I would say. ..because it is the only way in which he can know and understand a social problem in depth. History proves more than any other discipline how much the dead hand of the past influences the present. We get attitudes and stereotypes of all kinds that have a tenacious way of transmitting themselves from generation to generation. Jefferson said "Each generation should inherit the earth anew." But, we don't. The problems carry over. The present racial problems are an example of that. "... We tend to have veneration vener-ation of the past... " We tend, too, to have a veneration of the past, or else, we want to repudiate it entirely. In both instances the study of history helps consideration of the problem. Of course, sometimes people use history to fortify their own view of themselves. The I white man has done that for centuries. Khan: What do you think of ! the student of the '60s? i Sturges: I like students of the ' '60s better than the students of any previous generation. I like best the sense of moral outrage that the student of today feels when he views present institutions. I like his willingness to commit himself to a cause. I like his hatred of materialism. And, old as I am, I envy his willingness to take so little for granted. For the first time, we ' ve students on this campus that as a sanctuary for intellectual freedom and growth. If that is. destroyed or profaned then we don't have any true change coming about. We just have annihilation. Khan: In high school, history is often presented with an "apple-pie and Johnny Appleseed" approach. For many people this is the last of their education. They don't go on to college history. Do you think changes should be made in this direction? Sturges: Yes. For one thing, most students don't have a well-developed sense of history in high school. They find it dull and boring. High school history often tends to be taught in terms of generalities and dates. The result is that the student doesn't get the richness of human thought and fabric that make up history. The average American also wants to make sure that his children don't learn anything against his country.. .against his heritage, of which he is very, proud. We tend to have our own pictures of ourselves substantiated by history. That isn't a very scholarly pursuit. We can't be completely objective, but we have to try to be. The goals of the professional historian and the high school curricula makers thus often conflict. But I also think that if high school history is poorly taught, the universities must bear a large measure of responsibility for that. We don't work closely with the schools for the teaching of history. (As the English departments do, for example.) We often tend to make high school teachers feel like our country cousins... We have to work more closely with the high schools. Khan: What do you think of the establishing of Negro history at University? They (the Negroes) have contributed to religion and the world of entertainment as well.. .the more respectfully we study Negro history, the more contributions we will uncover. Many Negro leaders are worth attention. We cannot study Negro history as folk-lore or myth or for the purposes of self-justification, if it is to be a scholarly pursuit. And if it isn't a scholarly pursuit, it doesn't belong in the University. Khan: In his book "The Arrogance of Power" Sen. William Fulbright states that the American people, contrary to what they may commonly think, have never been a revolutionary people. And that they fail to understand the meaning of revolutions in other countries. Would you agree? Sturges: That's very true. The American temperament is always, and has been, conservative. As a result it has always hated words like "socialism" or "Marxism." "The average American doesn't understand the 'right to revolution..." revo-lution..." The average American doesn't even understand the "right to revolution" -set forth in the Declaration of Independance. Part of his dearest heritage has been that every man has a chance to get to the top, and a great deal of pride (amongst writers etc.) has been expended upon this. The actue problems of race and grossly, unequal distribution of wealth (specially in the big cities) have challenged that dream. The younger generation is more aware of this than our generation has ever been. You know, a recent writer says that the older generation had a hang-up with sex and the hang-up of the younger generation-.is with violence... "This university has becno m pioneer in incorporating J Academic Freedom..." Sturges: It is not widely enow known that a student can appe. to this board if he feels unjust treated by a member of II-faculty, II-faculty, etc. This university k been a pioneer in incorporate, the statement of Acadeir Freedom for Students made t; AAUP into its official regulation The appeals board has It-official It-official sanction of the cenlr. administration and is therefc prIC empowered to mat-recommendations mat-recommendations with exceile. assurance of them being caw out. Its personnel contains mo' I -J students than faculty members.. It holds confidential at. I information given to it by I Ay-student. Ay-student. Last quarter we Yyfg readily available and this quan I we should be too. We haw: I decided upon the times, as yet. I Actually, a student may a;p-l includ about anything while he is I JWis campus; the board is not resttf-l fR '! to s t u d e n t - f a c u 1' design; relationships... even though A(SQ was the primary purpose. I you nc In passing I should mention t closure recent Chrony attack on !- 00ls Office of theDeanofStu 'M don't think that was fair. ;; cataioc cooperated to a great degree QUette establishment of the Mf U-hM,i; Board. I'm sure she is B-interested B-interested in the rights of st j . 1 ' j than she is in protecting 1 ' ii establishment." In my opm' have a very progressive Dei" i students. I don't want yol i ;n( ;he impression that the Board is controlled by thelI Students. It is controlled t!.! Student-Faculty committee' las a student chairman apP' y ASUU. the energies of an industrious, creative people. And, then again, we tend to see things in highly moral terms and consequently, in all of our wars we have felt outselves on the side of good and somehow, right. As a result, much of our objectivity is lost. We would have a hard time justifying the Mexican and Spanish wars. And, I must confess, that I don't understand the official reasons for our being in Vietnam... At the same time all this has made us a proud and creative people. Because of our moral outlook, criticism makes us nervous. That fact makes reformers out of every generation of Americans-although not, as I have said, revolutionaries. Khan: I have oberved, looking through course summaries of various American Universities, that a great emphasis is placed on American history, American politics, American literature, American psychology and so on. Do you think this sort of ethnocentricity is appropriate to the modern world? Sturges: That's an example of American nationalism, again. We don't understand other people as well as we ought to. We are not : close to the cultures of other i peoples. In the modern world this i is fraught with dangers. Obviously, 1 we have difficulty understanding I the Arab mind or the Oriental I rnind or the African mind...and 1 while some other people are i frantically trying to catch up...the i average Americans haven't 1 understood... |