Show I > IE WON AS W-ON THE STilE Prosecution Rested Yesterday Afternoon and Rebuttal Has Begun FOR MEN NOT THE CHIEF That Is How Devine Construed the Department Rules Ueplnln Surprise the Prosecution tf lV > tifyiiis Contrarilj Welch I ta > s Devine Claimed to Have the Board in His Vest 1oeUet 1rote 4utioti Will As lc For a Coiitinn mice The Devine trial is nearing an end The prosecution rested yesterday and trie chief < began giving his side of the Lake He was on the stand most of thtff ternoon and will be on again this morning As was expected he denied the charges seriatim explaining something some-thing and paying little attention to others The other side will subject him to a very severe cross examination examina-tion One of the surprises of the day came In the testimony o4 Jack Manning the reduced lieutenant who swore on the stand that he had consented to his 1 reduction because he was yet too ill to take his old position The prosecution cnrged that he had made greatly diff dif-f nent statements when the cose came p uder consideration before the men tl witness coming afterwards swore bat Manning had several times told him that h = > would demand his old 1ositun and pay The men around the department were especially surprised as Msnmr > g had been one of the loud et of the kickers and had said that he uuuld demand his old rank if they would all stand by him Before heft I he-ft the stand he wound himself up pretty thoroughly 1 I An Jssne 011 Veracity I Fireman Welch went on the and I nnrt wore to certain cc creations with the chief and the Jatter denied I them iatly This so far has oee the only dirt denial made on the de den I The line in regard to smoking at Je other charges seem to be to claj iat the men were affected by the rTife > < t iid the chief was not Coutfep t 1 for the prosecution yesterday pave IMtice that when the present hearing was concluded a stay of proceedings pro-ceedings would be asked until it could Introduce specifications covering the Hasbrcuck fire and various other matters mat-ters that hav been ruled out That Social Drink The proceedings were delayed until 1045 a m by the absence of attorneys who were in the district court I T F Chapman recalled When Chi f Binford was down on that ex Jiibitiun day was Chief Devine in uniform uni-form all day Yes sir Toseph Enzenspercer of the Oxford saloon had seen Chief Devine in his paloot on the day of the exhibition at I the KWel Templeton at about 2 oclock KJn tie afternoon was with Chief Bin fE tl and Major Stanton Did not re J iiember whether he was in uniform or not Thomas Weldh one of the four men suspended last week had been a meni < TIer of the department for over three I > ers was driver of the hook and ladder Is the aeiiei truck sufficiently manned by two men No two men cannot handle the truck and handle it right r Do you remember McCarthys absence ab-sence Yes he went away for three days believe he was out of town but he had jbeliee substitute jj k More Ruled Out Af er your suspension in February nnd einstatement did you hear a conversation con-versation between Chief Devine and Chief Pratt Yes What was said O Zane We object This comes tftiuf no specification M Lippman We want to prove Chief Devine made slurring remarks abrut this boarJ under the charge of induct unbecoming an officer and a gentleman Objection was sustained Do you remember the Bates accident acci-dent dentYes sir I What kind of horses did Mr Bates liaveThey They were balky and hard to get ot Tt would take an experienced driver to handle them I Wanted Him to Swear Falsely I Before he Bates trial did he come to you and speak about the horses Yes he asked me to swear that anybody ouid driv the horses I old him I couldnt because I might have to drive then myself sometimes Do you remember having a conversation conver-sation with Mr Devine on June 4 about the influence he had over the police and fire commission Yes sir State as near as you can the subStance sub-Stance of that conversation About two days after Clark was laid off we were coming along the street and I saw Clark looking kind of mad I remarked about it to the chief The chief said it would do him no od to Joo mad because anybody he did not want might as well put his Miings together and get up and go 36 said M > Salisbury did not accept 4 fh position on the board because heed 3nt he-ed it but it was simply to help him IDevine out He said that any man he did not want might as well go He said he might as weli go because be-cause if ht went before the board he would go nyway He said he had seen the mayor and the mayor said oj > v member who would not work in Jiarmoiy with him and Chief Pratt ould tot foe a member of the department depart-ment > The Board in His Pocket What did he say aibout having the members of the boaiu hi his jnside pocket 7 4He did not say inside pocket he said he had them in his pocket r T > o yot know any instance of favorItism favor-itism in the department Yes D Water McCarthy Earl and Spry ar let rl without substitutes evine ever say to yoi I want ci xipval and true to me ph e lay ha tapped jua on the J 1I shoulder and said he had got me in the I department and wanted me to be I loyal and true to him and if I saw i I anything going on to let him know I because there were some A P As in there and he wanted to get them out I Witness had seen the chief smoke on the apparatus floor and had saluted I and not been recognized A P At His Friends Cross examination Before Mr De vine came in had there not been a factional fac-tional fight between the A P As and the others Something of the kind but I did not pay much attention to it Did you not tell Mr Devine about this I thisWe had some conversation Did you not say that the A P As were after you Witness with alacrity Xo the A P At > are my friends John Manning who was ill for six months had gone away a lieutenant and when he carr back he was reduced re-duced and put on the hose wagon He is not well yet and could not take back his old position Did you not tell members of the department that you had frequently asked for the position Objection made and overruled Witness said he had only asked Clerk Chalmers for ibis appointment as lieutenant There was surprise on the part of Mr Lippman and then the I witness got rather mixed up and said he had not demanded his reinstatement I reinstate-ment but had simply asked for a certificate cer-tificate II Mr Lippman was evidently more surprised at this statement Did you ever state to members that J you were displeased with being reduced re-duced Yes I did I Who was put in your place McCarthy who was appointed by evine There were oilier men who I were older in service Could you do the work now Not quite The prosecution had been assured Manning would testify differently Cross examination Said he had been well treated he had been appointed lieutenant on probation the chief had I never failed to salute him he had no I I personal complaints to make I Signed the Charges I Redirect He had signed the charges against the chief lie did not know what he had signed until he had seen it in The Herald Why did you sign asked Mr Lippman sharply I signed them to get rid of trouble I was told where to sign and did it like a fool A man in my position posi-tion should not do so thats the last time Ill do it Are you in the habit of signing your name without reading asked Mr Lippman with fine sarcasm N o sir Did you not know how serious your acts were On cross examination witness swore he had signed the charges at Amos 3Ioretons request Severe on Manning Cross examination How did you come to sign the charges Amos Moreton brought me a blank Sheet of paper Did he read them to you Xo we went out to the blacksmith shop He said he was in a hurry and I told me where to sign Laughter Mr LippmanYou knew what you were doing did you not Xp I was a fool Did you not sign a contract with Powers and Straup to pay 5 toward the prosecution of Chief Devine and then come afterwards and beg that your name be taken off the list I i dont know that I did The witness was allowed to escape amid laughter Too Much Water Charles T Vail had been a fireman for five years He thought there was too much water used at the Waltner fire When he went in he saw the heart of the fire and then called for the men to shut off the water as it was being played promiscuously He did not know anything about the Rich fire He had seen the chief smoke on the apparatus floor What is the cause of the discord in the department There lias been a great deal since the inauguration of the commission Up to the time of the appointment of I the commission there had been no discord Crossexamination At Waltners I fire some difficulty might have been avoided by the use of a respirator To Mr Jennings At the Waltner fire the chemical had been used after he called for a shut off of the water Lack of Harmony To Mr Stephens From what he saw at first he would never have turned turn-ed in a third stream Up to the time of the inauguration of the commission there had been no serious trouble Now there is an unrest Something is I feared all the time There are whispers whisp-ers as to who will be the next one Ito I I to go To Mr Powers He believed the I men could be handled harmoniously if good judgment were exercised To Mr Stephens The dissatisfaction dissatisfac-tion was partly due to the Manning incident and the taking away of days off Maiming and His Threats Mr LippmanWas iMr Manning dissatisfied with his reduction to the ranks Yes several times he said to me he was going to get his money and his place if he had to go to the board to get it The prosecution then rested with the understanding that Messrs L B Rogers and J T Donnellan might testify later An adjournment was taken until 2 oclock Rogers Say it Van Bad In the afternoon Lewis B Rogers insurance agent was put on the stand and asked Are you acquainted with the general gen-eral reputation of Mr Devine as a chiefYes Yes What it is Bad How about the use of water attires at-tires I thought that in the Smith firewater fire-water had been thrown around blindly As I expressed it at the time it seemed as though the whole of City creek was I being poured in In the Waltner fire it seemed as though it had been fought as a blind fire when it could not have been such There seemed to be too much water Mr ZaneYou were one of the agents who opposed Mr Devines appointment 1 ap-pointment Yes Judge Powers What were your reasons for opposition Wanted Few Fires I worked with other agents who I were against him because we wanted to keep down losses by fire Mr De I vine was inexperienced f nd that 4s the reason I have no personal grievance or even acquaintance with Mr De vane Mr StephensOn what do you base your opinion that Chief Devdnes general gen-eral reputation is bad Continued on Page 6 JA I DEVINE W VAS I ON THE STAND I Continued from Page LOn L-On general talk among the insurance insur-ance men and other people ATe have talked over the matter Mr DevineWas it not desirable to keep the blaze out of the Kentucky liquor store in the Lipman fire Yes Mr PowersHow has the lack of harmony affected the fire Department It is generally believed among the insurance men that it is not up to its old standard of efficiency John T Donnellan was put on the stand to prove a conversation between Chief Devine and Mr Outcalt but said he had not been present He aid his relations with Mr Devine had been of the most pleasant nature The defense rested and the prosecution prosecu-tion began Insurance Men Uchnt Abraham II Cannon said as an insurance in-surance man the chief had extended U Chief Devine What is the general reputation of the chief Generally good Are you connected with business houses where his reputation is considered con-sidered Yes and it is good Crossexamined He heard in the Deseret News that Devines reputation was good He had heard his brother say that Devines reputation was good He had heard many men speak 6f the skill of the department Then you believe that the present department is in firstclass shape I believe it is under good management manage-ment A L Jacobs ron A L Jacobs an insurance agent was asked as to the chiefs reputation Among the people generally the propertyowners and business men it is good Witness had been well treated at the department Crossexamination He had heard many insurance men speaking against the chiefs reputation Had heard it discussed at several fires I Devine oil the Stand Chief Devine was then put on the stand On the charge of smoking around headquarters witness said the rule did not apply to the chief or the chiefs office There are special rules applying apply-ing to the chief Does not make a habit pf smoking on the apparatus floor When the offense has been committed com-mitted it has been when he was called I from his office and took his pipe or cigar with him I Do you remember ever having refused re-fused or wilfully neglected to salute any of the menr Xo nor any other human being Have some of the men refused to salute you Yes the assistant chief Mr Clark and others rite Sear Check When he received the Sears check Mr Sears had said Here is a check in recognition of your services at my store He had asked what should be done with it and Mr Sears said You know best I suppose you have a fund He said the matter would have to be reported to the board and Mr Sears said All right The fund stands in the name of James Devine chief engineer en-gineer Some moneys accrued about a year ago and on suggestion of the j i board the fund was so started The Sears check was deposited for the fund He had not touched any of the money Had the check in his drawer for about ten days Gave knowledge I to newspapers the day he received it and reported it to the board at the next meeting The Lipiiian Iiire I As to the Lipman fire witness said j the department responded promptly to I I the alarm When he arrived smoke was pouring out thickly The plate glass WAS breaking and inside it was a burning volcano The worst fire was in an L Two men went in the south door and took in the chemical He made up his mind that the fire must be kept out of the Kentucky liquor store and tho front of the drug store The store on the north was also threatened He sent hose to the north through the gambling house in the front at the south and on the roof The department succeeded in keeping the fire within the limits it was in when the department arrived The flame even crossed the Kentucky liquor store ard burned some paper in a room on the east of it The AValtiier Fire When the department got to the Waltner fire there was plenty of I smoke but no one could tell where the fire was Several ineffectual attempts had been made to find it through smoke that was so intense that a man could not live in it for fifteen seconds The doors were broken In and the stream started The chief must rely very much on subordinates The hose was laid out for fear the fire would get into the Cullen The fire had evidently evi-dently been burning from almost the time the people had left the store General Gen-eral orders to the men about isfcng water are not to turn too much on j fires Most of the loss at the AValtner fire was due to smoke and heat Too I much water may have been used I The only way to handle the Rich fire was to thoroughly drench the baled II hay After the fire Mr Rich said he thought the department did well and I gave a checkThe The Steamers The steamer at No2 is in same condItion con-dition as when he took charge The steamer at No1 was put out of service I ser-vice because of the cutting down of men and money for the department I It is now in active service Steam can be gotten up in about ten minutes with a cold steamer The double reel was taken from No I 2 to No 1 because of a lack of horses and the better chance of storage in the latter house i Cainc and Sears The examination was interrupted to put on Joseph E Caine who testified I that the chiefs reputation for efficiency ef-ficiency Is good and that he had al I ways been treated well Crossexamination He did not remember re-member with whom he had talked about Devine i S W Sears said that on account of I the demoralization in rates risks were being taken at from 40 to 75 per cent cut Crossexamination Had been appointed ap-pointed about a year ago as an agent Does not do business entirely as an insurance in-surance agent Has gotten business for about ten years Distribution of Tllen Chief Devine was again put on the stand He gave the following schedule I of men Hose wagon 6 men chemical 4 steamer 2 chiefs buggy 1 aeriel truck 3 office 1 It would take 35 men to properly man the apparatus I He patched up apparatus because he could not get new apparatus He had put a 20foot ladder on the hose r wagon as it was extremely necessary The assistant chief is in charge of house No2 He visits the house according ac-cording to the necessity sometimes twice a day and sometimes once fn two or three weeks When there were only two men at No2 the captain was in charge There were rules against any such actions as those charged The schedule of meal hours was made by the captain and approved by the chief Mr Zaue So tile real fault was the J C stupidity of Captain Sullivan Evidently so Treatment of Men I How have you treated the men since you cam in I have not been too haughty or dictatorial The mistake that I have made has been that I was too gentle J J Sullivan once said that Did he speak about Stanton coming down and cursing them I I wont speak about that What was the cause of lack of harmony har-mony Donovan uiid Smithy an I first found there was feeling between be-tween the assistant chief and Captain Sullivan There were two factions in the department taking the sides of these two officers There were also religious I re-ligious differences I tried to harmon I ize the two officers and talked to the men about the necessity of harmony The first trouble I had with Donovan was when Gilbert claimed he had been given a doctored cigar by Donovan I remonstrated with Donovan That was the first little jar Some trouble had come later over some flowers be tween Sullivan and Donovan and fol lowing that came a regular smashup Prior to this during his absence in Montreal Welch was suspended by Donovan who said first no leave had been given and later said it had This added to the feeling There had been no open rupture between myself and the assistant chief Trouble Over Flowers I In May when we were about to I make the change on days off I called the assistant to my office and told him I would like to have harmony and if I jl he had any greivance I would like to have him tell me like a man I thought since then there had been better feel I ingAVitness AVitness had ordered men to keep on their coats because there were complaints that they were half dressed I when on the street in front of the de partment McCarthy as one of the most capable I men in the department He was al lowed to go to Coalville because he I had not been off for seven weeks Jordan was refused a day off when he was kicked by a horse because the I I doctor said he Could work The Case oC IJurt I I Burt was never engineer at No2 He was simply assistant engineer and was suposed to take charge of the engine at times While he was in charge the engine was not oniipri nut n Bywater was made assistant engineer I on that pay Afterwards toe was made engineer because witness believed he I was the best man Payrolls were put in evidence on these points Witness explained that Manning was put in charge of the truck on fproba j tron While he was sick lie was kept j I on the payroll as an officer He Is not I able yet to take charge of the truck and seemed perfectly satisfied Mc I Carthy was appointed because he was the best man When the Bates accident happened Bates was intoxicated Charges had I never been filed by him against nny I man because of accident although al most every man had had an accident J Witness then described the various ac I cidents His Private Work j t Regarding the allegations that the firemen had done his private work he said he had a nurse girl most of the time There < is hardly a man iu the department who has not picked f p the boy and carried him and amused him Did not know McCarthy had done any work for Mrs Divine The rest of drawers and wardrobe were made In order to save the cost of building closets He believed his was the only department that did not get any of the Andrews furnituie Laughter A re port of the council furniture commit tee approving of this action was sub mitted This was made to the council 1 after the charges were filed I A counter affidavit from Lucas I Robertson of Park City saying that he did not do housework or rock the j cradle or do any other work for Mrs Devine without compensation was i put in evidence The Urajeriimis Conversation I Mrs Maginnik stated you had a lurid conversation about c ttinp rm of ten menThe n men-The only conversation T had was with Judge Powers about the bill and when it went into effect That conversation I con-versation was rather animated uTo go back said the witness Robertson was in my rooms so much because he was comjng to see the servant girl Did you say if any man talked I about private work you would make it uncomfortable for him Not exactly I said if any man did any work for me and talked about it I would pay him Why did you pay Paul 250 Because he helped move my private pri-vate furniture Did you transfer him on that account ac-count Xp Did men scrub the floors Yes just as they scrubbed other parts of the building I didnot consider con-sider that private How about the Connor incident I simply said I would not deal with him I have dealt with the store ever since The OConnor Letter How about the Mrs OConnor letter I did not consider it offensive and went up and explained it to her She appeared to be satisfied How about the statement that you asked Welch to swear that the horses could be easily managed It Is false made out of whole clothDid Did you use city hard coal in your private apartments Yes and believed I had a right to do no Did you have any doghouses built No there were plenty there The pen I had built for a horse My dog Is put in there in the day time How about the hay What we received was as good as could be had I turned away a lead The horses are now fed less grain and are in good condition How about the straw I have not examined it all My orders to the captains were to have no bed straw unloaded Some bad straw I complained about and deducted de-ducted the amount from the payment An adjournment was then taken until this morning |