Show FORBES i I FORMER DIRECTOR INSiSTS j THERE IS gs CONSPIRACY TO DESTROY HU HM BY Y PERJURY 1 I Charging That Politics and Sawyer Were Vere to I Blame for Veterans Bureau Troubles Forbes Denies Graft Drinking I and Loose Living WASHINGTON ASHINGTON conspiracy Conspiracy conspiracy WASHINGTON w Nov A 3 1 13 A to encompass encompass pass my destruction by means of perjury subordination subordination nation of perjury and the suppression of material facts and documents was charged by Charles R R Forbes former director of the veterans bureau in testimony today before the senate veterans committee defence defene g Til ing th the stand stanl and n it nis JUS own on de- de deI de I fence fen before a 0 cro crowded ded commit commit- I ted teo committed iral room the former gHI- gHI I cral entered a genera general s on nn absolute denial ot o by othet othel witnesses reflect reflect- I lop upon his Ills honesty wrt the denil Mas as directed the Wit wet nes a SOld said ag evin charge char Insinuation innuendo and tion which In an what what- what I Oe er oe er reflects upon the honesty atc ale integrity or of perI ot-my ot my official or per I onal personal con conduct while I occupied the In offIce theoffice ot of o director of war nar ar risk In- In InI I Ini or director of the i burau au por I I lu nr UES POLITICS rora Most lost of ot the tho deficiencies es In the II I 1 ot of o the laws laMs la s pro proud proud- 1 1 Illig I ing ng for tor relief to di dl he I fd di had bad cn br-cn lue to POll poli poli- poli tic tico politico ard ord Sl Sau Sawder or er tt Ho HI referred Ip 4 Bug Brig Gen an Charles Chares E D Sawyer yer a per per- per personal onal friend and in t Q PresIdent Harding r I th 1 t I i nit I dl r rl the statement made macic the corn COUl- com by Dr that he a vas fo 1 by Pr fol fo I insubordination in connection I the lie sale alo of surplus property at Md McI Lon eforo the Iho pr sl finally decided to listi I I his second temporary or order sto stork stork- ston ri I Ij rIng the delivery cry of ot goods at t Per Per- Per Per-o j rn the th former saidI said I frankly told toM th the president that I I could not continue to sere ser ser e If Sawyer was to continue ip 11 I Imy I my ely office and it became re a c iole between bet Sawyer I and ni- ni self mi-self self and I reHe relieved i cd the tho ot of anY possible by I my resignation TIE s PRO PROBE At the Forbes Had a pre pre- prepared I 1 I pared statement in which he earn earn- earnestly estly r the tho committe I to qu him most mot I as to all a mailers maUrs with with- I I I in within the thc scope ot or the h st g and of the testimony gIven and which he hc Mas aa to give I I I I feel that fiat I cannot refrain front from to tim the commIttee committe- at this time Fortes said Mill rn r InA belief finally re resulting In ron on m mv my part rt which I ear by b- the t testimony of disinter disinter- disinterested ested ted witnesses to e establish sh that an attempt ha has been ole mb-ole mi de to mIs lead mis lead this committee and that a conspiracy has s been on Oil foot the o of ot which I Is to e rn In destruction by moans menns ot of pr- pr er- er jury ot attempted at- at attempted tempted subornation of ot mi the suppressions of facts and documents bearing not only on roy rny personal conduct c as al a II director of ot the th veteran veter bu bureau I but also upon the th official conduct I of The he affairs of the ui bure-ui b mi nil misfit j end and my nI IS T IES LOO LOOSE I CONDUCT CO I den deny d nv and I hereafter deny specifically and i I detail the Ole utterly false felse and nod ground ground- r E 1 legs 8 s o charres of official and anil person person- personal personal al at neglect dishonesty graft gratt liquor lor loose conduct and any and e every cry other de of duty official or Personal persona hM has been ascribed to ne inc either by bytho bytho I tho witness Mortimer an and or charged against me ilie meby meby by tin Hd of this committee I 1 do not mean that my admin admin- administration l Tins as blameless I do not deny Its Imperfections I 1 do not seek to shift any responsibilities o I others dead or alive but I do doert as- as assert assert ert sert that I have not consciously guilt guilty of any wrong doing either by act or neglect I I feel It Is only proper to stat tat that I did not seek seck this position I am sun frank to say while I ha lIa hau ou Page o Two FORBES BLAMES SAWYER SA AND POLITICS FOR BUREAU GRIEf Plumbers Helpers Go In For Dramatic ArtAnd ArtAnd And Demand Dress Suits And Plug Hats Continued from rage Fuse One never been particularly I active actie e ns as asa asa a politician although ahas aRe a Re- Re Re Republican publican et et when ihen hen the present ad- ad administration administration ad administration ministration came Into office I sas wasI as ambitious on account of ot my ox- ox experience ex experience otI to become a member ot of I the shipping board which I communicated to tho late president prest- prest president dent who had been ben my political and personal friend tor for many years President Harding frankly ad- ad ad advised used me that It was ass Impossible for tor him to gratify my ambition and ho he ultimately tendered to me the tho position of ot director of ot war ar risk In- In Insurance In Insurance I accepted the position with much misgiving with the ex- ex expressed ex expressed pressed desire on my part that I I might retire from the office at the end of ot a year I When I first met Colonel Jones Jonas the tho retiring di director rector he said to me I dl-I Colonel Forbes Forbes you are arc com corn coming ing lag only to grief and sorrow I have havo done everything within my power to build up this thia Institution and make It really worth while It Is politically stagnant and I do donot donot donot not belh belie bellve e that ou or any other man will ever be he ablo able to put It over After Atter some conversation ho he added You will find our first dit- dit dif difficulty I 1 believe In the public health service ser It was as not long be before fore toro I realized that Colonel Chol Chol- meley Jones had spoken the truth S L Among the first difficulties that I encountered 0 waa as the by General Sawyer of ot his plan to hoe hos- hos hospitalize all a disabled veterans In the ramshackle and tumbledown can can- can buildings throughout the country I was as as and oIlS alwa s hae ha been utterly opposed to this plan planas as ha have haio e practically all alt other per per- persons per persons sons eons who ho have havo given any thought and study to the matter except General Sawyer and his Ills Immediate tollo o ere Early In the administration General Sawyer Insisted upon this plan notwithstanding that a most distinguished committee appoint appoint- eded by the American Medical as- as association as association and composed of ot Dr flu Hu- Hu York Work present secretary of ot the interior Dr Frank Billings of Chi Chi- I cago and other ph- ph were acre ere bitterly opposed to such a plan I 1 regret that on ac- ac account ac account count of my opposition to such a aplan aplan aplan plan plan I Incurred from the be- be beginning be beginning ginning the active e hostility of ot Gen Gen- General Gen General eral Sawyer IlI E IS QUOTED In his hia testimony given on the I opening das dais of ot this Investigation the present general director Hines said The bureau Is a large ma- ma machine machine ma machine chine It has haa taken a long time timeto to become effective I quite agree with this statement of at General HInes Thear Tho The viar ar risk Insurance bu- bu bureau bu bureau reau began Its work with a peal peale load It has been compelled to build down Instead of at up I feel teel that I would not be he frank It 11 this committee unless I added to this that In my honest belief bellet most moot ot of the deficiencies In the ad- ad administration administration ad administration ministration of ot the laws las providIng for tor relief tor for the disabled veterans whether under the war risk riek Insurance ance bureau or the veterans bu bureau bu- bu bureau bureau reau of ot the thO public health service serIce ser Ice or other agencies has been duo due to politics and Sawyer I i I I regret exceedingly that the I name of the late president has hila been Injected Into this thia Investigation andI and lit I It Is my desire and Intention to be boi absolutely necessary to the of the truth But Inasmuch as astore General Sawyer has appeared be be- be before tore fore this committee and made a I aI holly unauthorized and erroneous statement concerning the tho cause e ot of my resignation I feel It my duty to state the tact facts as IIa follows During the summer of ot 1922 at- at atI attel after af after ter tel I had served something more I than a ear my health began to break and I desired to retire This desire expressed not Only to the I president but to many others did didI not take definite to form Im I'm until toward to o ard I the end ot of the year 1922 ahen hen It became perfectly apparent ent to me I that It would be utterly Impossible for tor me zoo to continue to Administer the law relating to the I bureau on account ot of o the constant interference on tho the part of ot Gen Gen- General Gen General eral San Sa Sawyer 3 er Jn In the month of at December I 1922 and long before the president finally finally decided l to Issue his second temporary order stopping the tho do- do de livery of ot goods at I told the president that I could co not continue continua to sen serve sere e It If Gen Gen- General Gen Gen- General eral cral Sawyer was to continue In of- of of ot office fice and It became simply a hoice holce between Saor and I relieved tho president of at any pot embarrassment by tender tender- tendering tender Inc In ing m my resignation the date te of of'S S 'S ho he Insistently deferred deterred for CO das 8 beyond the date suggested by me for it to become effective Examined by his counsel JamesS James S r hy Forbes told In more detail the tho story of what ho he ed termed the Interference of ot General fI eer er In the operation of ot the vet vet- veteran vet veterans tran eran erans bureau He Is quoted Sawyer as clung one Inquirer I J am ant the veterans bureau Come and s see seo me S WYER's YER WC U U S S S RELATED also asserted that Saw Saw- Sawyer y yen yer r constantly opposed confer confer- conferences conferences of at scientific consultants who came to Washington to assist In means of ot caring for tor the tho disabled that he wanted anted all pa- pa patients patients pa patients tubercular anti 1111 general housed together and that he Insisted that Ic Ic doctors be gh given gien en th the tha same op- op opportunity op 01 opportunity as other doctors In the matter of ot employment by the bu- bu bu bureau reau He Ho He told me Forbes added that t ho he was waa going to see that doctors had bad their In- In Innings In Innings flIngs In one Instance he said ald Dr SaW er Issued an n order for tor re-In- re re ln of ot a doctor that had bad ordered discharged Asked bore the general got his author author- authority It Its ity the witness replied He always claimed ho heo had flu flu- au authority from the president Pressed for more specific infer said he would Ilk like to tobe tobo tobo bo be excused from mentioning President President dent Holding Hal ding It If the tho president Issued orders bureau administration sold said gena Senator tor Walsh of ot I s Mas sette tt iou ou sho-ild sho state It rather than take the tho responsibility upon you yourself If I can say frankly trank the tho witness ss d that Sawyer to o e more authority around WashIngton ton than any senator and he got fot away with It PROTEST TO IL Forbes added that lien he pro pro- pro protested tested Lasted to nt Harding th r told him hint Sawyer simply as getting Information tor for him A Ar chairman of ot th the hos hos- hos board the thc former di- di director di dl director rector continued SaW er would call meetings In his office In itt th the state ear nr and navy Y buildings at ot which hours were ere spent In tn Ion discus and nothing was accomplished I sugg sted that General Saw Saw- Sawyer Sawyer yer yen establish his office In the vet vet- vet veterans erans rans rans bureau so that I could get some work ork done dona In my offices he said salol but one room wasn waco t enough for Cor him Asked about political pressure said gold therA ther was wag both out Id side and Inside politics Political pressure Is brought to te bear ber on Individual cases cl he be add add- added added ed Political pressure in tho the In In- In In of employee of ot the bu- bu bureau bu bureau reau Political pressure ro w was a brought to b bear ar for tor the sale oJ of property tor for the t purchase of ot prop prop- property property property erty and lOt other things Inside politics that was Just jut tho the men mn on the Inside working with wilh the gang on the outside This and hampered my work I testified that he had millions to the It ir revamping revo the dental and Improving ln the rehabilitation work lIe He asserted thai that many ot of those In vocational training were housed In mere and that In Inmany inmany Inmany many cases men were getting Use Use- Useless use useless less training Plumbers helpers would gO gro In fur for dramatic ait alt he lie said The They oud ask tor for full tull dress suits and plug hats Forbes told the committee he lie be- be believed believed be believed the veterans bureau never would function effectively until there thre Is a change of ot the system There mu must t be bo more than on mar to direct Its acU activities he Xo No ono one mm man In the orld can handle handle- that handle that job joh There be an unbiased poUt non nonpolitical ical board to run It |