Show j DISCOURSE k by alder ORSON orson PRATT dew del delivered livered in the four fourteenth ward school hoeme salt lake city sunday sanday evening jan 19 1873 REPORTED ily BY D W EVANS 1 I 1 D DO not know when I was more edified and instructed than I 1 was this afternoon in listening to tile the discourse of elder hyde according 1111 to my judgment it was certainly calculated in ili its nature to edl edi edify Y and instruct every person who listened to it with attention it was delivered in eloquent cio clo quent language ian lan aage was plain and simple pointed point ef and definite and if obeyed was calculated to do good to all the lord has lias appointed a varlet variety y of gifts in his kingdom isome isomo some having ing one and some another and especially ally in the quorum of tile tilo twelve of which brother hyde is the tile president there is a great variety of gifts and talents and it gives me great pleasure to listen to griemi them and it would be with great satisfaction that I 1 would listen more than I 1 do but I 1 am frequently called upon to address the people when I 1 would prefer to listen to others what subject I 1 may present before you tonight to night I 1 do not know sometimes a subject will open to my rny mind while I 1 am listening to the tile sin singers and sometimes I 1 rhe rho wl without thou t geraj having laving the tile first thing before my mind to speak to the people and I 1 trust in god to give me what is needful at the very moment this is tile tilo case with me tills this evening and I 1 do humbly pray to my father in heaven in the tile name of his beloved son that he will grant unto me the spirit to discern what to say and what would be most adapted to tile tilo wants of those who are plesent pie ent there is such a vast field of light and truth which god lias lids revealed in biffle different rent ages of the world and more especially dibi ci 1 y in our times that the tile great difficulty i c alty with the servant of god I 1 have often thought is to distinguish and discern what portion of tile the great variety would be most pleasing in the sight of the lord to lay jay before the people are a many peculiarities in our rell reli religion glon gion but the generality of the latter latte ilay ony saints are well acquainted with them sometimes strangers attend our meetings who would be glad to havo have ns us dwell upon certain subjects subject which they think would greatly gm atly interest them we are willing to do PO 10 but still wo we study to have til tit tiie tile spirit to edify all whether they be i in i the church or whether they be strangers who wiio are here oil on a visit among the tile peculiarities which god has revealed directly to the latter day saints may be mentioned the various degrees of happiness liap and glory which exist in the eternal world also the various degrees of punishment upon the different classes of individuals formerly before we became latter day saints we were instruct edby our fathers and mothers and by the tile ministers whom wo we heard that there were but two places in the tiie eternal worlds one or the other of which was intended borall fon for all ali tile human ill family that all that happened to miss heaven would be sent to the other place which they called hell this subject was dwelt upon very lengthily and very interestingly by brother Brot lier ller hyde this afternoon and during his liis remarks lie told about the different diner ent ont mansions that god iad ind lad had in reserve for all the human family some are arc glorious others intended as places of punishment these things were dwelt apon upon very fully by 11 brother rother hyde in some respects but there thero were some items connected with them that were not fully investigated and laid before the people the way that we obtained a more perfect knowledge of the future condition of or the children of men was by revelation indeed all the knowledge that ever mankind did obtain in to this matter was by revelation we read in pauls first epistle to the corinthians something about the different glories connected with wl th the res ur of the dead dearl we are ire told in the reasoning aning re of paul that when people come forth from the dead some will inherit one glory and gome some another and these glories are typified by the various creations which the lord had made paul says there Is one glory of the tile sun suit another inot her ber glory of the moon and another glory of the stars and aud that as one star diners flom flota another star in lit glory BO 60 also is th the resurrection resurrect iou ion of the he dad we a ame are r i c 11 1 sq the tho scriptures that there is a variety of pun p un as well as glories these punishments differing inna inua in nature ture turc according to the works of the children or 0 men for instance we read of some persons who are to be punished for sins they have committed without any chance of forgiveness either in this world or in tiie the world to come this tilis plainly indicates to us that certain classes of sin sins scan can ean not bo be for forgiven givel in lit that world while other cl classes a ses of sins may be forgiven i en on certain conditions ho he fl that at sins against the tiie holy ghost we c are told shall not receive for sod ivaness ve ness men call can sin against od the father and if they repent in this world they may bo be forgiven if they bin bill aga against ilist jesus his son and lind rep repent blit nii ati and ld rork vork the works works of righteousness these sins may bo be blotted out but if they sin against the tiie holy ghost af after ter ten having received tile the same and been baptized by hini hinl there is no forgiveness gi veness for that sin neither in lit this world nor ili in the world to come now if there thero is to be a variety of punishments aswell as well weil asa aa a variety of glories there must be a variety of places of punishment it would look inconsistent to us oven even here in lit this tills life to see a person pemon guilty of buta but a small edimo crime against tile the I 1 ts of our country thrust into the same dungeon with the murderer it would be unjust for instance st tanco tance according to our notion notions nor for a person pemon who wilo has committed but a trifling of mience fience against the law to be thrust into luto the darkest and deepest dungeon alongi with him who has lias shed innocent blood we have sufficient justice justlee in our own bosoms to classia classify r these individuals and to point out to each the apartment jil iii ri which lie is to dwell Is the llie lord less just j than man la ho not filled with the tile great principles of justice far beyond that winch which any mail man ever did rec receive elve eive from hiim have emanated all our ideas of justice consequently we cannot look upon him as 3 a being who would consign the poor heathen who died without a knowledge of the law and others who llave have led moral momi lives but who have not obeyed the gospel of the tile S m n of god to the he same punishment as murderer who sheds ennocent blood wo We should regard its it as unjust if all these classes were to be into one place there them to welter welte under runder the the same samo conditions of punishment throughout the endless adea afes of eternity without an any hope of redemption I 1 could not look upon tills tilis as just and I 1 presume that no other reelecting being could especially if iffie jle lie was acquainted with the tile scriptures jesus in speaking upon this tills subject ays lays L i he that knows iab hi Jk lasters masters will and does it not shall be heaten beaten with mith many stripes tn i pes II 11 while he who is ignorant of his ids masters will and does things that are worthy of stripes shall bo be beaten with few illa ilia I 1 have v e not quoted the saying of id ferword for word but I 1 have given you you the sentiment the alfird therefore in judging mail man judges not by the theace act in all ail cases dut but but according to tile the understanding and knowledge of the individual who performs that act if two persons were werm each to commit a murder shed innocent blood and one had a full knowledge of the revealed law of Goda godana rid iid the other was in entire ignorance cc of it there would be a distinction in judging these two charae charac characters tem we vout would d say at it on once cc that lie he who wiio had llad voul sinn sinned adzi against t knowledge should acl rei receive a heavier lea iea r punishment punishment than he who had llad not t this is knowledge suppose that saints who have not only 1 heard icard the law of god but have embraced the tile gospel of the tile son of god have been renewed in their minds by the power of the holy ghost and have tasted the tiie good word of god and the towers powers of the tile world to come should be so to far overcome as to shed innocent blood bloode would them there fienny ba any forgiveness jor them not atall abail ab all ail would it be our duty if such a person were wem judged and condemned by the laws of our country to be by the neck until dead to visit him and pray that god would fbi foi forgive g 1 his sins no wo we would bo be sn sinning ilg against god in doing so why because god lias bas tove Teve revealed aled to us its that persons who li have ive thi this slight bight and kilow knowledge ledge and shed innocent blood cannot ue be forgiven ili in this world nor in tile tito world to come and we should not ask him to do that which he has gasdo do emed creed that ho he will not do such a person commits the unpardonable sin lie sheds innocent blood bloo after dafter having the tile light of the holy ghost knowing g that a in so d doing dolne 0 ng lie ho is not only onis ili iii N sin sinning against ains t G god A the father er and aud na against als ais is son but bot against the convictions of the tile holy ghost supposing again that persons outside of this church that have heard the tile gospel of the son of god but have refused to obey it should murder they tiley sin against great light and knowledge but not against the holy ghost here is the difference between the two classes of murderers the latter day ilay saint would never bo be forgiven but lie mould would become a son of perdition now let mo me bring up iii some sonic ini stances from Scrip herip scripture tum in lit regard to I 1 these different classes of individuals and the tile light t and knowledge 11 th they elliad had some may be forgiven as t have already stated in tile tiie world to come let bet me ref eryou to a certain class elass that are named in the scriptures that will be forgiven on certain conditions you recollect that the tiie apostle peter having gathered around him a large congregation gre gation of jews tito tile murderers 1 3 of our lord aud and savior jesus jeus christ who had llad shed innocent blood delivered to them a disco discourse lane iane but it was a very dif dlf different one to that which lie preached to the tile mixed multitude who iad lad llad gathered from the different nations on oil the day of pentecost when lie preached to the latter lie iio said sald repent eve ove every ry one of you and be baptize baptized in t tile it name of Jesus christfer christ for the flee remission of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the tile holy ghost for the tile promise is unto you and your children and unto all that are afar oil oin even to as many as tile tiie lord our god shall call that was a true gospel ser sermon nion preached to individuals that were not guilty of murder they were velv velu all required to repent believe ili in jesus jesua je sus christ to be baptized in lit water for the tile remission of sins sius and they and all who were afar onn off who wilo would receive the tilo gospel were promised the tile forgiveness of sins and tit tiie tile gift of the tile holy ghost but come to the tile other othen germon sermon to 0 which I 1 have referred the one preached clied to the tile wicked wicked and corrupt ru prep jews who wilo cruci crucified nned fled jesus peter said sald we wot not but what you have done it through your ignorance in lit other otiler words you have not received the tile holy ghost and because you have not iad lad llad tile tiie othe hue upon you you have shed the tile blood of the innocent one you have murdered the son of god the messiah but you have done it through ignorance now the question luji is was wils there any hope for them could they havo have their sins forgiven ili in this tilis life ilfe no xo peter I 1 after first telling them that they lad llad shed the tile blood of the tile just one otte in lit their ignorance then tells them liow ilow low and when they tiley may obtain forgiveness I 1 will repeat ret mt t the words repent ye there pew rew foro fore and be converted convert edlI no ito b bap i bisin here repent ye there therefore and be converted thab that your sins may be blotted out when lie shall send jesus ch christy rist which before was preached reached unto you whom the I 1 Fl heavens eavens must receive until til tit the times of the restitution of all things spoken en of by aw the thet mouth of all the tile holy prophets since the tiie world began 11 he did not tell them to be baptized for tile remission of their sin sins why because lie understood too well the katurd of their thein sin it to teli tell them to be baptized for the tho te to mission thereof he knew they had lost that privilege in lit tit this is world because they had llad shed the tho blood of or the tile holy and just one he said to them if ii you will repent now you murderers you who wiio have bave balled killed jesus the just and holy one otte there is 14 one hope hone that mav may be blotted out not in tills tilis tire life not by baptism the remission 01 ol of sins but when tho the time of refreshing lyk shall come orom from olie file prience of the tiie lorland fjord and he shall send jesus jesua whom tha tha heavens till receive until then and not even they repent whilo while hero here in this life this tilis must have hart been sorrowful news to thoe those to whom it was communicated if they bellev ed odit edit it repent and be converted 11 yi xv tice now thi me means use hse the word converted lia been construed to bo be bom of god or to become a llew liew hev creature but tile the true meaning of the tile word is tp reform our lives converted from doing is evil to do that 11 which inai 1 ich is good turning from front shi MII and transgression to that which is righteous before god I 1 if those jews would repent and turn or lie be converted from their sins to do that which was vas right they tiley iad lad had a hope llope of having their sins blotted out when jesus should bo be mint from front tho the presence of the father in ili the times of resti restitution but until ulith then they must in torment rina riua for their sins lot mcbring me bring up another ins ance there was a man mail in ancient times named david and because helas he was a man after gods own heart the tile lord clio eilo chore chose c him to be kin king over israel the lord also alao great greatly teless blessed tills mau man and poured out richly upon him the tile spirit of prophecy and revelation and many of his llis psalms which we ave now sing with ao much th plea piea pleasure um in lit our meetings contain prophecies relating to the most remote generations of tile human family this tilis man mail was a prophet I 1 hot het and revelator lie was filled tilled iv with itil the holy ghost and spoke as lie was moved upon by that spirit god loved lil ill him mand and said baid that lie was a mail man after I 1 llis lis own hear t god also bies bles ed him blin while but a ruddy youth fleeing from cave to cave and and from front mountain to mountain to escape from tile tiie persecutions of salt balt who sought to take his llis life with eight |