Show I CLOUGH ON THE WITNESS STAND Why Securities Company Was WasI Incorporated I in New Jersey THE LAW HAD BEEN TESTED HEARING 1 A G TO T BE E I CONTINUED IN NEW YORK CON I NW r IT PAUL Oct Oct 23 The hearing in inthis Inthis ST 3 this city cUy p cit t Special Examiner F G ingersoll Ingersoll appointed to take tk test money in Ia the th suit of ot the United States against a the Northern Securities com corn company compan pany pan the Great Giat Grat Northern Norther and the the Nor Northern NorI thern them Pacific company and others under the Sherman antitrust law was con concluded eluded late this afternoon and an ad adjournment adjournment adjournment taken to New York Nov 10 next when the examination of wit witnesses witnesses witnesses nesses residing In or ot about that cIty will begin The hearing in this city has ha wU lasted four days Presidents Hill Hi of or tho the Great Northern ter Harris rr of L the Burlington and Mellen Melen or of o the Pacific being th principal witnesses The other were Colonel W WP Wo WF P F o Clough vice president and anc counsel of ot the th Northern Norther Securities company and Frederck Frederick Weyerhauser the big lumberman witnesses were Colonel Clough dough and President Mellin but bot nearly the entire entre day was devoted to the former the governments attorneys ator Deys paying particular attention to t the matter of or rates and Joint rates rt s various arous schedules mater res of Qt tariffs having been Intro Introduced introduced Into nt the record rord Colonel Coughs Testimony Colonel W IV V P Clough for forthe forte forthe the record a 0 map of ot the territory cov coy covered covered ered te by the railroads Interested for the purpose of demonstrating that ven even If I it had been be n so desired it would not have bave been be n possible for tor them to control the rates completely op on 10 per cent of ot the traffic carried in the territory through which they run The witness told In some detail deti of ot winess the organization o 0 he Northern Norther Se Securities Securities curte company and Us its Is Incorporation The capital stock was wa placed at a high figure to make possible the acquire acquirement I ment meat of ot any desired railroad or industrial indus industrial trial t k The map ap of f t the th northwest gt being placed in evidence Colonel Clough told of the connecting points point of oC the Northern Pacific and Great North Northern ern em and their interests Interest in North Da Dakota Dakota Dakota kota Montana and Washington He explained the meaning of Joint tariffs and identified ident ed documents document showing that the the nature of ot such tariffs which were then placed In the record Joint tariffs he said greatly greaty fa Ia facilitate taits the movement of freight This arrangement citate makes a single route rute out ut of ot several Independent ones and Is the particular point in which the railroads of or the United States are far tal superior to those of ot Europe Had Eid Been een No Contest Colonel Clough was by hy Special Attorney Beck who sought to learn whether there had ever been any contest with wih Mr Hill and J ils as associates associates In their practical control of of the Great Gr nt Northern Colonel Clough dough said eald there had not been any such con contest contest contest test and admitted that Mr lr Hills His policy would probably be supported also inthe In Inthe Inthe the Northern Securities company He insisted that there had never been any that real attempt to consolidate the North Northern Northera Nort era ern Pacific and Great Northern rail railroads ri railroads roads er and held that the only action acton nothing but ever eer taker taken taker had been really Tealy the personal acts of ot Individual share shareholders holders Speaking of the Northern Norther Securities did not company com pan he said Us its is organizers adopt the Idea of ot a a trustee for their I stock as they did LU not desire to tie te up r their stock that tight qs as the stock stoc should be in In such shape that th t It I could I be dealt deal with wih The effect of ot possible adverse legislative action acton had bad been one Influence In the action acton 0 o f the he Northern Securities company as a some supreme court decisions had made a little un uncertain uncertain certain the question queston of ot vested rights certIn and they even even feared ared that their char charters tern might be taken away awa New Jersey Laws Colonel Clough was wa again on the stand at l the afternoon session Assist Assistant Assistant ant Attorney General Genera Beck seeking the reason why the Northern Norther Securities S company had been incorporated in New Jersey compan Colonel Clough dough alleged that It laws of was because the corporation wa te that state had been Judicially passed pasted on Interpreted and their validity es en established esI while that the laws of ot New NewYork NewYork NewYork I York under which It was at one time York though possible to incorporate and andI I Which arc are similar to the New Jersey statutes were new laws lans and had never been sustained by b the courts court He le de denied denied denied nied that the Northern Pacific stock stockholders stockholder stockholders holders holder had been consulted before the articles of or the Northern Securities com corn company company pany were filed ed but admitted that JP J JP JP P Morgan Moran a large holder of ot stock stockS and D ti Willis James and other holders In both roads had been consulted before arrangements were completed and con consented consented to put their stock in a holding company Much time was given to questions about Increases In the capital stock of ot the Great Northern all al of ot which Colonel Colone dough Clough said sid had been sold at par to stockholders for t r cash cas or Us Its t equivalent and he ha Insisted that tat the equivalent par value of or Great Northern stock bought hought pr by the Securities com corn company company pany pony represented a genuine valuation valuation The and not any Inflated Securities company held proxies for all al Northern Norther Pacific and Great Northern stock tock deposited He admitted that it I was in both cases a majority and that there was nothing to prevent the elec ele eleton lion of ot Identical boards of directors of both ton roads rods except the laws of the country countr which positively forbid such action acton Rates Bates Gone Over The rates given give in the various docu documents document meats ments presented today toda were gone over overal ment at al considerable length Mr r Day Da attorney attorney ney ne for tor the commerce com corn commission commission mission wanting to have various points in the schedules more clearly cearly stated In Inthe inthe the te records Colonel Clough said sid that since tle he had gone east est his connection with the Great Grat Northern Norther had been ben sev Mev severed ered cred Jh and he had nothing whatever to todo todo todo do with the tariffs tariff on either that tat road or the Northern Norther Pacific Pa lc although be he beiran was iran a director of ot the latter road rd wa a of the North Northern jC SQ S Mellin president Nort and nd wa was a gm ern rn Pacific railway was as sworn Examined by b S C W V Bunn on ral counsel examine for that corporation Mr 11 Mel Mellen Mellen len had been een president and director tor of ot the Northern Pacific since August An th and he be stated positively that thai his Ills company had not as an organization taken any part in the formation of ot the Northern Securities company Ie be b ee ved that tat the purchase of or the Burling Burlington ton had bad promoted commerce having opened wider marketa market to the different rent roads The largest single article artcle of ot rad traffic Is in the lumber minerals being next largest In shipment and livestock shipments shipment being very veo heavy He n ic so the lumber business secured for forthe forthe forthe the Northern Norther Pacific and Burlington BurUn ton Jointly as business made Joint tariffs tarns a made It I a possibility to secure seure such shipments but they could never neer assure a permanent and positive and might at any time be canceled by the whims of or management of at any one party fatt traffic to the tM Joint He said his road rod gave no orders order to the Burlington that he ho knew kew of ao co au nu authority authority for tor issuing orders to the officials of cia Is of that tat line Ure except the te board bord of directors The simple fact of a common ownership tended tede to t greater stability and ad better beter feeling f Ung between the te officials of ot the various rous lines and ad thereby pro promoted promoted promoted business bules There being no other witnesses ready rY read and the next n witnesses I alone easily accessible In New York York the tle hearing was a adjourned to that city Nov 10 next next The examination of ot E B E N Saunders Saunders which had ba been expected today tody was wa deferred defered until such time as counsel may I agree agee upon upon |