| Show SW NV ta LL zin 2 op flodina the ike Sena teof the united 13 T f IOP uie I 1 bin I 1 M amal I 1 81 tu 4 e att ctt t e in i ctr I 1 el ct to 1 idwyl IP bf alie ali enkel ji tat nies of ed tar J in III enca tehla a anay and bior or other durpos w 1 I approved fl march a a 1 locis 1 Conc Concu Wed ded mr edmunds the senator is is totally tui mistaken staken he be mil will bardou me for saying no more vote for 1 anything th atwould disqualify a catholic Catli olic llian than I 1 would an 1 episcopalian p isco which I 1 I 1 ila happen pen to be 11 myself 7 or a red babrel haired man nian or a black haired man the simple proposition is that for the general koed or iter of tile united states State sandhof tha teril territory tory it 5 while the ladies get out of the slavery of voting and bo be left alone that is all there is to it mr call I 1 agree entirely with tho the senator from vermont vermo antin in that proposition but I 1 beg his bis pardon when be he says that Is nil rill in order to maintain tile proposition of this bill that the ladies of utah as ho lie terms them shall get out of the right to vote at the present time he be proposes to attack all flies essential principles of and con right while he I 1 have e no tie doubt would not eay say that a Catho catholic or a protestant should or not because of hh his opinion exercise political power in this district his argument docs does affirm it because the connection between conclusion and cause cannot be separated by moral man unquestionably 1 if there is ii power b hero ere to say that a man nian who believes tho the Mo mormon church ia ii right because of that wrong belief i is guilty of such a state of political wrong that he lie may not exercise political I 1 power when you come comedo to judge of S some man who i tho apin ion that the catholic religion i is 9 right or the protestant re religion gi it is is right so far as power is is concerned you stand upon precisely j tho the same ground round 1 you can construct a state and mol mold and direct its political powers on the basis and for the object of excluding any religious or irreligious melidor belief or practice the tile sovern govern men t bf comes one for the maintenance forms of opinions or the proscription of others s it becomes ono one for an establishment respecting acting religion or for prohibiting the free exercise thereof certainly no one ono onswill vill will alibe he government 36 ve i rement of the united ia is for the maintenance or prohibition hibi tion of any form of opinion or action respecting religious or irreligious ligi legious ou belief or that the lern rn anent may prescribe certain modes es foretich person and impute crime and nud to them without hearing trial or conviction the government in the territories must be temporary and its pow powers ers must bo be exer exercised cisca subject to the principles and theories of the con constitution thuu on and subject to the tile theory ofilio capacity of the deop people I 1 e to regulate rep and istrol their domestic affairs why wall say that aliis congress may establish a he hereditary echar government in the territory of utah tah and why not who will say that they r may nay in per perpetuity an aristocracy in in the territory Terri territory tor y of utah and why not where is is the constitutional inhibition against putting the exercise of political power in the hands of ou one two or r five persons per it is is not t to 0 be fo found u n d in in the constitution it itis is to be found in the spirit and principles of the tile con constitution which saya says the capacity of the thi nisio majority rity of a people rendered eligible b jj ato the e exercise of p political 0 i suffrage by themselves and th the e principles of the constitution ahall control and determine all their dow domestic estic relations and that the Nati national oual government shall operate rind exercise so power in in a totally different sphere and fur for entirely diner cut elit objects that is the power that says that Con congress gross shall not establish an arist aristocratic cratic government or any form of hierarchical government in a territory but that the people alones ball question an and all questions of that claas class mr logan will tho the senator now inasmuch as he lie and I 1 want to under understand tand each other yield tame to me f for or a moment mr call certainly mr 1 logan I 1 understand the argument of the senator to establish in liisi hisa nind the tile proposition 1 I do not coil concede cede the at ah au i that these c people have the tle righta rights which belong to states and not to territories but take it for granted fur the argument they have the right to regulate the thin ic relations as lie cal cals 1 them doca does he be claim that even 1 if they have that right they have a right under the religious idea or claim to practice p polygamy without subjecting themselves to pu punishment 1 mr I L fr cull call do you oil want to know my rny individual opinion on t the lie subject mr logan nol no but I 1 want vant to know your legal opinion you are discuss discussing sing this from a constitutional onal standpoint mr call I 1 think that whoever constitute a majority of the slate state of illinois Il linow whether they aro alamor room or catholics or protestants or polygamous people mople have got the right to say whether polygamy or monogamy lono gamy 1 I incan tho tile poli political t right or political power not the mom moral but the political power and rind right under tinder our form of government aa contrada cont contradistinguished contra radi distinguished stin guis from m tile religious right cosay whether it shall be lawful or unlawful mr logan we anre not tal talking r king about illinois I 1 do not want to go into that I 1 am ani talking about utah mr call then rhen I 1 say say that in utah under our constitution the national government has national p powers ewers the people in the diff different lerent slates states 1 have the right and in s spirit iu the territories to control L their air own affairs tr s and the power given to con g ress rm to legislate in the territories dae oca not authorize them to violate t tho io fundamental und principles of the constitution in other respects mr logan that docs does not answer the question at all a it tt is mere theory mr call what da do you want to know mr logan do you believe under your our theory hat if the deop people ae of utah tl establish polygamy toly polygamy gamy we have bave boright no right to punish it as a crime be cause they believe under the form of religion that that ia is a part of their ra religion gion or christianity that it is no of freme lense no crime in in their ideas and that therefore they are exempt from punishment because that is their religious belief does the senator say that mr call I 1 have not said anything of that kind I 1 say as a matter of fact as asserted in the different forms lofstate of state government that polygamy ia is a crime and almost all improper relations with more than one woman have been asserted by the states that had the authority to do it to be criminal now I 1 assert that the congress odthe of the united states has fortela for temporary P 0 and hec necessary essary government in the territories howerto power to gay say what shall constitute crime and would be justified in saying that whatever erblic public opinion in in the dif different states tat had bad prescribed to be a crime crime should be crime crime in the territories but ut as to the question of power there Is is an un absence of power on that subject except as derived from the nc ne necessity lor for temporary government tho the senator is aware of the long able and full debate respecting the 10 power w er of congress over the territories pe 9 which has exhausted that subject I 1 will say bay to him that the right of congress to make a law that if a man lives in polygamy upon conviction of crime he lie shall be punished is u totally dif different thing from the right of con congress ess to declare by law that he be ala shall f be deprived dof of his right to vote and his political power because he BO so lives or so thinks without conviction and trial the propositions on which our government ia is based and on which our system of so society cie i t rests are a declaration by law 0 of T what acta acts shall constitute crime hearing i trial and conviction b by Y judicial lu d lel W power freedom of speech and thought and action except when I 1 pull asbed on conviction as crime political power adjusted to the ends of protection of lif life e aud and property and per personal bonal rights the tho extirpation of error of olf opinion by free thought argument and discussion by moral power the restraint of immoral or criminal I 1 action by penal law applied by judicial power un under der the restraints odthe of the constitution Cons titu lion to such let 4 w when hen committed and not by a political or religious arachy proscribing opinion mr logan but tho the Sena senators Senator toris Js getting il into ahto u constitutional dis di now the senator has lias repeatedly repeat peat edly insisted that the catholic reli religion gion could be destroyed tile episcopal church the methodist church or any other church destroyed troyed by legislation if this pie was enacted into a law that was t the principle that was e enunciated that polygamy while a religious belief was at the same time a crime tho the que question tion I 1 want the senator to answer ii whether or not ha he believes that any religious belief no matter what it may ruay be excuses a man for committing that offense which la Is a violation of the law mr call I 1 answer that the ibe law doea does not recognize any excuse or reason for disobedience the question of the senator is whether there is nuy silly obligation higher than the law and this is a question as old as time and for which many men have suffered I 1 martyrdom in the eye of the law there coln be no IQ excuse in the eye of religion and morality there may way be render unto griar the things that aro arc beear a and unto gid gi d the things that are tire god gods 1 for mys myself elfI I 1 do not taink polygamy gamy ia right law or no law that N would be my opinion AS to t tue the degreeff degree of wrong whether it is as bad as murder or false falso witness or the in so of the de decalogue calope that is the question for the tile old fes res cament and the new testament t to 0 decide I 1 think that our christian ire religion liei h as developed into a much more beautiful system than existed in the days of david and solomon in respect to garringe mar marriage ringe a but I 1 do not think they were 9 necessarily great criminals or bad men because in tile their day under their cir circumstances cuni they had bad relations from ours the question between the senator from illinois and my self ia is not that the question is whether a commissioner in illinois can go to a man or woman and say you are a polygamous man or you are a polygamous woman you shall have no political power here and then he lie says to him 1 I have never peen tried billave never b en convicted there i ii s no cal evidence of it you have no right tinder underpins this government to a attach condi conditions tims to the exercise of political power for the purpose of having the effect of excluding from the government or the body politic or the social s system stem theories or belaf or modes of individual life or action your theo theory and your deel declaration of 0 organic rg anic law is is eduali aty of all men before the law good or bad religious religions and sacrilegious christian and infidel atheist and theist manhood suffrage is your boast the senator from illinois says that in the name of Con congram grem in n the name of the Christ christian iau religion speaking for fw the eople of this country and this government government we can are a polygamous man or woman and yoli you shall ishall have no part in the control of this country your property shall be governed and taken by men I 1 appoint you shall not vote that is the question whether the senator from 11 II finoia is right under our form of government in saying to those men or w women omen without trial wit without hout conviction convict iou you shall be deprived of y your our part and parcel in the govern ment of this country because you believe that poy polygamy gamy is right and because you have practised practiced it mr logan then I 1 should like to ask the senator if his theory is correct what would he think of a jaw law passed by congress applicable to a territory which declared that no persons except white men should be voters in that territory mr call I 1 will tell him what I 1 think about abou tit it I 1 think that in the days of slavery for which the senator and his fitti fathers lers were quite as responsible as 1 I in a territory where a majority mojo rity of the people held that kind of property and maintained that kind of institution it was a very proper thing to do ws m the people in the states did I 1 think now when all men have become free it would be a very wrong thing to do sir arm logan I 1 am speaking of it as a constitutional question not a question whether it id 13 right now morally or wag was wrong then morally but as to tb the power of congress if they had the power then to declare that no person should vote in a territory except a white roan man tb that at certainly did lid not include white women I 1 should like to know where congress has lost this power today to day to declare that women shall not vote mr call I 1 have not said that congress has lost the po power to do it congress exercises exercises ex necessitate aate tho the power of government in the territories upon principle upon argument neilt it has no right to do it after they I 1 icy become sufficiently numerous under the principle of self stif government to direct their own affairs hirs and whatever power congress exercises in in the territories must mutt be exercised in conformity to the principles cip les of our constitution and our for forms ms of civil liberty its power ig is not absolute but qualified and re Bt rained by the political principles on which our government ia is bi based ased and by the constitutional limitations on all its grants of power in ili regard to the institution ofela af slavery that was held to be property therefore as property under t the he protection V hii lection of the constitution th they ey bad a right to demand that suc such laws law should be passed I 1 have never acquiesced ced myself in that theory entirely I 1 I 1 have always believed that the right of the people to local self gove government rement should control this question whether they were sufficiently numerous to exercise powers of government in the territories I 1 admit that for gnat lublic con iterations Ide it plight night be adal advisable able and iu in this case would probably control my rpy jad judgment 9 10 r to ra 1 gome ome extent to create T territorial 1 r 1 govern I 1 luent went in denial even of the right of the people to self government in that locality but I 1 would never extend that si so far as to say pay that the constitutional tut ional limitations intended for their personal protection their immunity against punishment without judicial trial and judicial conviction I 1 without a fair and not pot a 4 suborned sub orned and wid perjured jury without jurors fairly selected I 1 could nev consent that they 8 should hould be deprived of political power without those processes applied to them if 1 you vou want to do it let fet it be done in a constitutional way by declaring by law that i it is a crime and by indictment trial and conviction before an impartial court an and d jury ury oot not by orga organizing auns a it political hierarchy tor for the proscription of these opinions and practices and overcoming the I |
