| Show MORE SOUND senatorial ARGUMENT IN the senate Sena teof of the united states on the of february during the debate on the edmunds bill bil 4 bina sina senator morgan handled the subject in wig Tig vigorous rigorous orous style we give up consid eabie abie able space to this discussion believing it will interest our readers as much aa as anything we can present following are senator morgans le xe marks mr hir president yesterday I 1 expressed Ir essed a desire to assist as far as I 1 could in the passage of some I lew lew ew for the purpose of suppressing the crimes of polygamy and bigamy in the territory of utah and anil in the other territories of the united states when I 1 first looked over bis this bil bli bill I 1 became satisfied that 41 t contained some in very vry grave cons if titu tu dional difficulties when I 1 came to consider how much the government of the united states has to do in the matter of regulating offenses lensea of or crimes in tha tit territories in the future I 1 found that whilo while st it wag was w proper that we should take every necessary step in our advance toward the accomplishment of this end we ought to proceed with a great deal of caution in addition to the people of utah we have a population amounting to over people in the united states subject to to our jurisdiction who have grown up under the bays eya tem tern of polygamous marr marriages ages and i in who whose be social organization polygamy Is considered one of the essential features I 1 refer to the indgin tribes we do not hold these people to the moral accountability t to 0 which we hold the people of utah or the people of the other territories or states ot of this union for the reason that we do not regard them ai as a christian people we have forborne to enact any laws for the punishment an 0 of polygamy gamy among the indian tri trl tribes we have ave wisely done so in fac fact as a matter of necessity because we found those tribes living under a system of social organization and social government which tolerated polygamy and which has attended their methods of government from the earliest history that we have ha re of these faceson raees races on this thia continent and I 1 believe elsewhere throughout this hemisphere in the progress of our 0 civilization we shall be compelled to bring the indiana indians as well as the cormons mormons within reach of that system of law which is ja considered to ile he at the foundation of our social institutions and we shall be a great many years in executing our purposes we shall have a great deal of legislation to enact a great many judicial decisions to make a great many arrangements and contrivances to consummate for the purpose of easing the yoke I 1 may call it of our oar civilization upon the necks aecha of thes these people so as to cause them to become satisfied with our system of government and to be coworkers with us in the advancement i of all the benen bened beneficent gent ends that we thinkie think we are attaining in the course of our public administration it Is therefore a question which is not to be treated in h a spirit of madness it Is not to be looked at as a question which should invoke our sudden anger and drive us into legislative excesses we have been too long getting mad about this condition of things in utah we have forborne too much we have too long le rated the evil in this and other territories now suddenly to institute I 1 a very radical measures for its extirpation under any and all circumstances it becomes our duty car reference refe rence renca to the indians indiana who may become citizens of the united states in the tile future and are under the protection and shelter of the constitution of the united states to a large extent to move cautiously quietly and often slowly in the arrangement of our system of laws to 0 o that they can comprehend it and we can adapt it to the changes we are constantly working in their social condition is no occasion just at this thia moment cf of time for being ang unduly excited about this business I 1 think if it it was ever becoming in the am er lelan ician senate to proceed with coolness and quietness and deliberation carefully searching every inch of the ground upon which we plant our feet it is at this very moment of time when thee theo is a great cry against polygamy in the territory orv of uth ut h under mormon influence it is one of the highest duties of every government in moments of excitement to stem the current of the be tide of fury of rage or 1 of wrath and to appeal to the constitution to place the people against whom au an assault is made made or against whom an accusation is brought on the ground on which we place all other people in dealing with them fearing lest jest we might in an unguarded moment do ourselves the wrong cf ef violating the constitution of the country in our attempt to inflict upon other people harsh barsh and sudden legislation it was said by the honorable senator from arkansas ayk Aik ansai mr garland yesterday that this was apparently harsh legislation he said baid the reason for it was that the cabe cafe needed a harsh remedy if the case requires a harsh remedy there is for that reason if for no other the greatest occasion why we should be very deliberate in approaching this matter with the true test of legislative enactments so they conform to the constitutions it may be that the committee on the judiciary do not understand this bill as I 1 do inthe seventh and eighth sections as they are numbered in the print but it if they do understand it as I 1 do it seems to me to ta be eagy easy of demonstration that the bill la Is unconstitutional in that particular ti I 1 notice thai that the language of the bill operates in present it speaks of a certain existing condition of nen men and things it speaks of a person who is a polygamist of a person who is a bigamist of a person who is cohabiting with more than one woman and of a woman in the same condition it speaks of persons persona who hold office as well aa as of those who are now eligible to office from the moment that this enactment la is signed by the president of the united States it has passed tho the two houses of congress ii li will operate upon the these classes of people peoble upon the people eople thur thus described and what wilf will wiil be the effect of its opera tion the seventh section provides that no tat lat bigamist or any person cohabiting with more than one woman and no woman cohabiting with any of the persons persona described as aforesaid in this sect section lont lant in any territory or other place over which the tho united states nave have exclusive jurisdiction shall be entitled to vote voto at any ejection held ta in any such territory or other place or be eligible for election or appointment to or be entitled to hold bold a any ny office or place or of public trust honor or emolument ins ing to under or for any say buob snob territory or place or under the united states I 1 understand that section of the bill to mean that if a man now holds an office of honor or a place ol 01 trust or an office of emolument under a territorial government or under the united states in connection with a territorial government when this bill is signed s i it will operate at 0 co instants ins tanti to disqualify him from holding that office a moment I 1 longer and deprive him instantly of it do I 1 understand the bill or not 1 la Is that the meaning of the committee that certainly 13 the meaning of the language of this section there being no words to confine its operation to to offenses onne ofle nees hereafter to be committed or offices hereafter heie heze after aften to be held hold and none to suggest such an intention A gintle gentleman man is said to occupy a I 1 seat rest on od the floor of the house of representatives as a delegate from utah who is a mormon it has been frequently said that he be Is a polygamist that he has a plurality of wives and belongs to the mormon church would it be the essect effect of this bill if it should pass both houses and be signed by the president of the united states to dis dla qualify him from holding the office that be he now occupies bo I 1 read the seventh section and no bemker of the committee denies I 1 believe that that Is the proper construction I 1 shall accept the silence of the membership of that committee commit ee aa as an evidene evidence that they construe this section of the bill as I 1 do that it would operate instantly upon its belog being signed to exclude that gentleman from the office he now holds on the floor of the house of representative senta Fenta tive mr edmunds if the senator will pardon me the presiding dins officer kir mr sir harris in the chair does the senator from alabama yield to the senator from vermont mr morgan certainly mr edmunds As debate is now I 1 limited I 1 beg the senator and everybody else to understand that no silence of any member of the committee on tila ilia judiciary is to be construed as having any effect negative or affirmative mr morgan neither negative nor affirmative then we are left in a state stale of convenient doubt on this matter I 1 do not doubt the in a state stale of convenient doubt on this matter I 1 do not doubt the construction and I 1 ask the senator from vermont if he be does not so construe this fact pact an that it would b have ave the effect to oust every eveny man from office immediately upon the bill becoming a law who now holds an office contrary to its provision mr edmunds I 1 will reply to that by and by bys if I 1 have the time mr morgan I 1 regret very much that the t senator benator from vermont Is disposed to treat this subject fl 0 p bantly it is rather lather too serious for that he cannot disembarrass himself of the of the constitution ution of the united stater neither can I 1 the weight of the obligation that I 1 hold to support that instrument would prevent me from voting for the bill when man of the committee does not say whether it means to oust a man from office who now holds one mr Ed edmunds if the senator will pardon me I 1 beg him to understand that I 1 neither intend to treat him nor to treat the disease this measure is intended to cure flippantly at all the committee will endeavor ia to speak for itself in its own time and in its own way and if there be any doubt as to the me ining of the bill the committee will endeavor to explain it the committee is not able so far to bce ece any doubt as to the legal e effect of the measure mr morgan I 1 shall then accept to myself t the be compliment of not bo be in ing worth worthy y of an answer to the question which I 1 had the honor to address to the senator from vermont mr edmunds oh no we do not mean that at all mr morgan the senator from vermont does not use words hicar piously tiou sly he does doea not use them without attributing to eve every fy word that he uses in every sentence sen een tenee tence its proper and full sign signification and the words that have been used in this section of the bill mean according to my judgment and no member of the committee has yet dented denied lathat it is it a bill to legislate out of office those men who now hold office who have been guilty of bigamy or polygamy or ot of cohabitation with more than one woman if that be the nature of the bill it is subject to eme some very serious verlous constitutional ob sections suei sudi as I 1 think the senate almost as a body would be prepared to sustain especially since these questions have been passed upon by the supreme court of the united states la in reveral well considered cases what Is an office of honor or public trust and of emolument what ia 13 the nature of the right that a man holds in an office of honor of public trust and of emolument I 1 see a distinguished gentleman before me today to day who la Is the head of the army of the united states he holds holda an office of 0 emolument of honor and of public trust would it be held for one moment that for any cause whatsoever the congress of the united states would have the right to say in reject to that gentleman that he shall be ousted from his office would it be held for a moment that any civil tribunal not being a judicial tribunal or a court of impeachment would have haie the right t tj pronounce him guilty of any crime against the law laws of the united states and deprive him of his hla office an office is in one sense property 0 r the emolument la Is a matter of value and Is a legal right mr jones of florida will the senator permit me to ask him a question mr morgan yep yes sir mr jones of florida does the senator doubt the power of congress at any time to abolish the whole army and every officer in it mr morgan that ia Is avery a very dif ferent question from taking but one officer and abolishing him forn fori fora a crime alleged against him by act of congress mr butler butier if the senator will allow me I 1 should like to propound a question right there ilir mr morgan certainly Certa luly mr butler butier the senator cited the case of the delegate from utah aad said that the bill would ay y him from holding 1 office by reason of his living in polygamy I 1 should like to aak ask the senator if that gentleman or any other person living in the territory ot of utah may not put himself entirely beyond the reach of this act if 11 it has baa the construction construe ion which the senator puts upon it by ceasing to I 1 ie a a polygamist and thus put himself entirely within the power of holding office and voting mr morgan he might put himself beyond the reach of the act by ceasing to be a polygamist atthe at the same point of time however when this act takes effect he la Is described same point of time however when this act takes effect he la Is described I 1 aa as a bigamist and he is defined in the seventh section aa as a lat bigamist or any person cohabiting with more than one woman that is in the present tense so that the living in polygamy or living in bigamy or living in any other jm proper association exis exists Is at the same bame moment of time that the law would take egeck the same bame instant the two acts concur instantly he lo loses loes es his bis office under the proposed stat ite what for he loses it for an act ol 01 bigamy perpetrated before the statute takes tabes effect mr air butler I 1 do not so understand it if be he continues to be a bigamist ten minutes ater the tile passage of the act as a matter of or course the act would operate upon him but if be he ceases to be a polygamist or bigamist ten minutes before the act is approved by the president of the united states I 1 do not understand that be he would be subject to it at all it is a mere dl cation by renson reason of committing something which the tiie law prohibits that is al ad mr air morgan A man who committed murder ten ears ago until be he has baa been teen acquitted of that is a murderer ai at d BO so you would is a murderer ai at d BO so you would describe him in speaking about him he does not lose the character of a murderer because the offense was committed ten years yeara beffie any more than a man would lose iose the character of a polygamist or a bigamist if that offense had been committed bitted ten das lefore before the suggestion made by the senator from south bouth carolina would compel us to enter very minutely into particulars to ascertain whether a man had bad imbt hobt his ommie offie e or not it might depend upon uron his mere men mental tal tai state having been a polygamist and living as such up to the date of the having been a polygamist and living as such up to the date of the enactment of the law at what time would it be ascertained and by what means menus would it be ascertained that he hallor haa baa or had bad not changed his purpose if you establish that he had been a polygamist teen then th en it would devolve upon him ta toi prove the negative that since that time he had bad not |
