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Show 1 I WALL OF MYSTERY HIDING MORMON HIERARCHY GIVING UNDER BLOWS OF SENATE BATTERING RAMS I! Successor in Line to the First Presidency of the Mormon Church Tells the World That He Is Living in Defiance of the Laws of Both God and Man, and Intends to Continue to So Live Startling and Sensational Admissions Made by Francis Lyman in the0 Smoot CaseCharles F. Merrill, a Son of One of the Apostles, Also Makes Some Sensational Statements Regarding the Condition of Affairs in Mormondom. V S BY A. F. PHILIPS. Tribune Bureau, National Hotel, L WASHINGTON. D. C, March S. t Apostle Francis Lyman and C. E. Merrill, a son of Apostle Merrill of the Mormon church, were the star witnesses In the Smoot Senatorial lnvestiga- i tion today, some of tho declarations and ndmlsslons made by Lyman equal- In If not exceeding those made by President Joseph F. Smith. The earlier , hours of today's session were devoted to further examination of Clara Mabel I Kennedy, whose mother, Mrs. Matthews, also shed some light upon the work- ill Ings of the Mormon hierarchy. It Mrs. Kennedy was further questioned by members of the committee con- 1, corning her first marriage, and her subsequent experience as a plural wife, lit The woman was loth to dwell at length upon her experience as such a wife. 1 1 She described It as most unpleasant and said that she had tried to put re- 1 1 inembrance of those dark days from her that she had tried to forget. 1' From the testimony of Mrs. Matthews it would seem that Mrs. Ken- M ncdy was forced Into becoming a plural wife. She had asked to be allowed to wait until she was IS years old. but Johnson and her mother would not S consent, and she was sent to Arizona and "sealed" to Johnson, w The story of Merrill was quite spicy. He confessed to being c polyga- 11 mist and to living In polygamy at tho present time. He related when and I where he had married his first and plural wives, and In a way described the 1 ceremony attendant upon the taking of a plural wife. There were just vows, he said. There was no certificate of the marriage, nor as far as he knew, any record of the plural marriage. He caused some amusement by referring to the time when a crusade was inaugurated against polygamlsts, and his j ' father and other church dignitaries found It necessary to take to the tall fc timber to dodge the United States Marshals, (, Apostle Lyman, who is In direct line of accession as head of the church, avis, as stated, a most important witness. Like President Smith, he admit-- admit-- te.& that at present and over since the manifesto was issued, the laws of morality mo-rality and of the State were being violated. The National Association of the "Women's Organizations, Including all women's organizations of the country, will meet here Friday for the purpose of considering action looking to tho ousting of Reed Smoot as United States i Senator, and the reformation of the moral situation In Utah, j Mrs. Matthews and Mrs. Kennedy will leavo for home tomorrow. I v Five more witnesses in the case are to be heard, and President Smith will he recalled. It is expected that all the evidence of the witnesses now here will .be In this week. It Is certain that a sub-committee will go to Utah after ICongress adjourns to make further in quiry and take testimony, and the records rec-ords of the church will undoubtedly be called. This means a thorough Investigation Inves-tigation of the affairs of the Mormonchurch. "WASHINGTON. March S. Mrs. i ji ' Clara Mabel (Barker) Kennedy resumed ' It the stand today In the Senator Tteed , ' Smoot care before the Senate Commit- tee on Privileges alid Elections. Mr. i "Worthington for the defense continued fJ cross-examination of the witness, and Inquired as to the reasons for her mar-I mar-I rlage belnjg consummated at Juarez, , Mexico, Instead of at the Mormon set- Uement at Diaz, where she lived. Mr, She said she knew of no reason and WW had no Information regarding an at- Cj4 tempt to have the ceremony performed lsewhcre. iff She said she did not tell any one that H the man to whom she was to oe married had another wife, and so far as she knew, those performing the ceremony 13 ild not know the marriage was to be a W plural one, jj? SHE TRIED TO FORGET. ' Later Mr. Worthington asked Mrs. iif Kennedy J she did not know that ap- M plication had been made to Apostle 3 - Teasdale and that he had refused to conduct or lo authorise the plural marriage. mar-riage. "What did he say?" asked Mr. Worthington. Worth-ington. "He said It could not be done, as all that had been done away with," said Mrs. Kennedy. Mr. Worthington called attention to the Inconsistency of the statements and he asked why she had said she did not know a request had been made to another an-other to perforin the ceremony. "I don't know how I happened to say that," said the witness. Continuing, she said with some emotion: "It was not pleasant for me to think about those things, and I tried to put them aside. I tried to forget all I could about it." In response to further questions from Mr. Tayler. the witness said her mother moth-er told her of the request to Apostle Teasdale and that she had no other knowledge of the attempt to get him to perform the ceremony. Apostle Merrill's son. Charles F. Merrill, a son of Apostle Merrill, was then called to the stand He said he was the son of his father's 4; Apostle Francis If. Lyman. -S 44 M H M 44-4-r44-4-H-H-4-4444-4 44-44-44-H-4-44-444-44-H-4 4-44 44-'r 44-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-444-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-4-,4-4-4- X IN DEFIANCE OF LAWS OF GOD AND MAN. t 4- 4- Senator Hoar "So you, an apostle of your church, expecting to 4- succeed Mr. Smith in the presidency and in that capacity to receive 4- divine revelations yourself, confess that you are now living and ex- 4- pect to continue to live in disobedience to tho laws of the country, 4- the law of your church and the law of God?" i 4. 4 The witness replied with a simple, "Yes." -f 4 Ho added, in reply to a question from Senator Dubois, that he 4- considered his duty to live with and protect his wives. Excerpt from 4- 4- testimony of Frances Lyman before Senate committee in the Smoot 4- hearing yesterday. third plural wife and Is himself a polyg-' polyg-' amlst. i In answer to questions concerning his own marriages, Mr. Merrill said he va3 married first in 1S87 lo a wife that had died in 18S9 and that he married "his legal" wife. Chloe Hendricks, in 1S91, and had five oljildren.;by1f6r.- He married another wife in 18SS, tho ceremony being performed in the Logan Temple by M. C. Edwardson. lie has had four children by that wife, the oldest old-est of which Is 9 years and the youngest young-est years Their mother's name was Anna B. Stoddard. "The marriage to my legal wife in 1S91," said Mr. Merrill, "was solemnized by my father." "Were you living with Anna B. Stoddard Stod-dard when you married the woman whom you call .your legal wife?" was asked. 1 "I was, although she had no house. She stayed at the home of her father and hftr mother and 1 lived with my mother," answered the witness. HAS TWO WIVES. ' In answer to questions from Chairman Chair-man Burrows Mr. Merrill said he has now two wives and Is cohabltatlng with both. Senator Foraker asked the wlness, "Is not the woman you married In 1SSS your legal wife?" ' "No, sir." Mr. Merrill explained that when he married in 1SS8 he had a wife living and that he understood that under the laws that marriage was not legal, and that therefore his marriage In 1S91, after the death of his first wife in 1SS9 made his last marriage a legal one. Senator Overman asked for a description de-scription of the marriage ceremony In 1SSS and the wltnera declared that he could not remember how It was performed, per-formed, except that he went to the Temple Tem-ple In Logan and It was performed there. In response to a question by Senator Dubois, Mr. Merrill said there was no marriage certificate issued, no record or any documents of any kind so far as he knew He said there was no music, no prayer and no questions that he could remember. "There was nothing but the marriage ceremony," he said with emphasis. "Well, tell us about that," several members of the committee demanded. "I cannot repeat It." said the witness. "Do you mean to say that you do not know the ordinary marriage ceremony in ydu"? church?" asked Senator Hoar "Yes. I know that." answered the witness. wit-ness. "And was not that what was asked?" he was asked. The witness said It was. He was told to give the substance of it. He said he and his wife stood up and Joined hands. "Then they made you promise something, some-thing, did they not?" Inquired Senator Hoar. "Yes, sir." v "Rut you have forgotten what It was?" the Senator remarked with a laugh. "Oh, no, I have not forgotten." said Mr. Morrill. He then said that he had promised to love, cherish and support the woman. "nd did you continue to cohabit with her after you married the woman you call your legal wife?" Chairman Burrows naked. II1S PA DODGED OFFICERS. The witness said he lived with both wives, but that they had different homes at Richmond, Utah, about a mile apart. "You say you were living with your mother when you were married the second sec-ond time. Where was your father. Apostle Merrill, at that time?" he was asked. "He was on the underground mo3t of the time," said the witness Jocularly. "What do you mean by 'on the underground un-derground V " asked Mr. Worthington. "He was In hiding." "Why was he in hiding?" asked the chairman. "Because about that time there were prosecutions going on for polygamy," Mr. Merrill answered He said that often of-ten times he would not see his father for a month. Mr. Merrill said that he had taken his 1SSS wife to his mother's home occasionally, occa-sionally, but that she had never stayed all night there and that so far as he know his father did not know that ho hnrl n vvlfr nlronrlv whrm ha woa vno.. rled by his father to the woman ho calls his legal wife. Mr. Merrill said his father la still llv-Ing llv-Ing and Is still an apostle of the church, but that he Is very feeble. In regard to his father's family. Mr Merrill said he had a father with six wives and that he had twenty brothers and seventeen sisters. He was asked how many nephews and nieces he had and said he did not know, but thought there were more than 100. "My father lives with his first wife and comes to the home of my mother probably not more than onco a month," he said. "My father Is a very busy man," the witness supplemented. Mr. Merrill thought three of his broth- (Continued on Page 11.) I ! WALl OF MYSTERY BIDING HORMOH HIERARCHY V f GIVING UNDER BLOWS OF SENATE BATTERING RAMS H j t (Contlnuod Prom Page 1.) crs htid married plural wives and that two of his sisters had married Into polygamous families. MOTHER OF KENNEDY "WOMAN. I The prosecution called to the stand Mrs. Emma Matthews of Marysville, h Utah, mother of Mrs. Clara Mabel Ken- nedy. Mrs. Matthews said she had been a member of a Mormon family L for twenty-five years and Is a Mormon herself. Bho ha been a plural wife, but I Is not now. Mrs. Kennedy Is the child j of Mrs. Matthews' first husband and was born before Mrs. Matthews becamo a Mormon. Mrs. Matthews said Mrs. Kennedy is 2G or 27 years old and had gone to Diaz with her parents sixteen years ago. Mrs. Matthews said that while living at Diaz she had known Mr. Johnson for two years prior to his marriage to her daughter and that she had had no ob jection to her daughter becoming his plural wife. She remembered well the marriage of Johnson to her daughter and fixed the dato definitely In May, "He Just asked mo If I was willing that he should marry my daughter and I said yes," said the witness. "She wanted to wait until she was IS, but he was not willing." She saw both Mr. and Mrs. Johnson, the first wife, when they and her daughter, daugh-ter, who was to become tho second wife, f left for Juarez. "You knew they were going to "Did you know your daughter was to be married then to Johnson?" "Where did you suppose she was go- "I did not know." ''Fdkl yU 010X110(1 ?" "Has she ever told you that she was married to Johns-on then?" t "She has not; I never asked her." - TEASDALE AS ADVISER, fc These questions were put by Mr. Tay- R r ler. When he concluded Mr. Worthlng- B i ton asked a number of questions by "i which the fact was brought out that t Apostlo Teasdalo had advised her against allowing her daughter to be- . come a plural wife on the ground that It was against the law of the church. la Mrs. Matthc-ws also gave some facts M concerning her own history In response ft) to questions by members of the com- mlttee. She Is a native of England and m while living a widow in that country II had become converted to Mormonism about 1SS5 by George Barber, misslon- w ary of the Mormon church, tj She afterward came to Utah and mar- lied Barber, becoming his third wife. m lle nad' sne sa,tl- embraced Mormon- Ism. knowing that It inculcated polyg-K polyg-K limy, but when she became a plural wife ft she was not told that polygamy was I against the law of the land. 1 Mr. Merrill was temporarily recalled f and questioned by Senator Dubois, who J "Mr. Merrill, do you still uphold the doctrine of polygamy?" I "No, sir," was the reply. J "ifa U pract,ce I "How do you reconcile the two state ments?" one of the committee asked. .Tjhe witness did not reply, but a -'fne.rtber of tho committee Illustrated by sayirtpr '.ie was like the man who was for prohibition, but against the enforcement APOSTLE LYMAN QUESTIONED. Francis Lyman, president of the quorum quo-rum of apostles of the Mormon church ' and the prospective successor of Mr. j Smith as president of the church, was tho next witness. He was born sixty-four sixty-four years ago and becamo an apostle '"Are you a polygamlst?" Mr. Tayler asked, and the witness replied frankly. "Yes." He said that he had had three wives and that of them two are still . By his second wife, to whom he was parried In 188-1, he had five children, the last being born In 1900. Mr. Lyman said that he had been one of the signers of the prayer for amnesty, pledging him-relf him-relf to all that It contained. He did not, however, recall Just what It did con- j Mr. Tayler read portions of the pray- "Dld you," he nsked, "Interpret that to mean that you would abstain from polygamous cohabitation?" "I interpreted It to mean that I should do all that was right." "Did you think It would be right to abstain from polygamous cohablta- Thls was not answered directly at the Several questions by members of the committee followed In rapid succession and Mr. Lyman admitted In response , to them that he knew that In practicing polygamous cohabitation he was dis-j dis-j 'obeying both the law of the land and the rule of his church. He also said In roply to one of these questions that he was not only now living in polygamous cohabitation, but that he expected to continue so to live. DEFIES ALL LAWS. Mr. Hoar then took the witness In hand and brought out a succinct statement state-ment from him which was of a character charac-ter to Interest all present. "Referrinjc to the rule of whloh you have spoken," Mr. Hoar said, "you understand un-derstand the rule of the ohurch to be the law of God, do you not?" Mr. Lyman replied that such was his understanding. "Then you arc living and Intend to live in violation of the law of God and taan?" "I fully intend," said Mr. Lyman, showing a disposition to elaborate more than he had done, "to be true to the law of my country, to my God and to my obligations and covenants with my wives, and I have never done a thing that my conscience did not approve." "I want," he proceeded, dropping Into a pleasing tone of voice, "to make a brief explanation If you will permit. My case Is different from that of most other men. I was born In 1SI0 and I can hardly remember when my father was not ft polygamlst. He was a friend and adviser of Prophet Joseph Smith and was taught by him the Importance and tho truth of tho principles of polygamy. polyg-amy. He accepted the teaching and entered en-tered Into the practice, marrying six wives In the years 1S45 and 1846. So that my earliest recollection embraces tho life of polygamy. A MORMON FROM INFANCY. "I remember all my father's wives as I do my own mother, and I lived in a family thus constituted until I grew up and became the head of a family of my own. "Consequently I have known nothing noth-ing else and I have felt that It was correct. cor-rect. I have always felt In my soul and heart that I was correct I married first in 1SF.7, again In 1S69 and once more In 1SS1. "The situation has been very painful to me and I have been greatly pained to find myBelf in opposition to the law of the country and of the church. But I had made a covenant with my wives to love, respect and endear them, and I could not find it in my heart to separate separ-ate from them so long as they were true to me." Senator Hoar "So you, an apostle of your church, expecting to succeed Mr. Smith In the presidency and In that capacity ca-pacity to receive divine revelations yourself, confess that you are now living liv-ing and expect to continue to llvo In disobedience to tho laws of the country, the law of your church and tho law of God?" Tha witness replied with a simple, "Yes." He added, In reply to a question from Senator Dubois, that he considered his duty to live with and protect his wives. SMOOT NEVER REPROVED. Mr. Lyman said he became an apostle In 1SS0, and that Reed Smoot became an apostle in 1900. He said Mr. Smoot had never reproved him for living in polygamy, polyg-amy, either In public or In the apostolic meetings. "If I am thought worthy I will succeed suc-ceed to the presidency of the Mormon church, If I survive President Smith," said Mr. Lyman, In answer to a question. ques-tion. Mr. Lyman said he Is the presiding officer of the twelve apostles. The name of John Henry Smith, a polygamlst, was given as the second member of the twelve apostles, and that of George Teasdalo, a polygamlst, as the third apostle; Heber J. Grant, a polygamlst, fourth"; John W. Taylor, a polygamlst. fifth; Mr. Merrill, a polygamlst, sixth; making five apostles who are conceded to be polygamlsts. "Senalor Smoot has attended the meetings of the apostles," said Mr. Lyman, Ly-man, "and has taken part In tho exercises exer-cises at the weekly meetings." The witness said he never Introduced any of hla wives to Mr. SmooL The meetings of the apostles are held In the Temple, said Mr. Lyman. He waj asked the difference between the endowment house and the Temple, and said the former was only a temporary tempo-rary building used for sacred purposes until the Temple was completed. Chairman Burrows asked of the nature na-ture of the marriage service known as "going through the endowment-houBo," and objection was made by Mr. Worth-lngton Worth-lngton on the ground that it did not assume that Mr. Smoot had any knowledge of the ceremony. Chairman Burrows said it had been asserted that Senator Smoot had gone through the endowment-house and had taken some oath there that might conflict with his oath as a. Senator. Mr. Lyman said he could not state the service If It was to save his life. He might approximate, and being told to do so, said that he agreed to live an upright life and that ho had not taken any oath against any person or anything that might conflict with any law of the country. 1 Mr. Lyman said the members of the first presidency and tho apostles had never discussed, tho advisability of prosecuting persons engaged In polygamous cohabitation. Mr. Taylor asked In regard to the wives of Abraham Cannon and Toas-dale, Toas-dale, but nothing of Importance for or against Mr. Smoot wao developed by the Inquiry. Mr. Lyman said he had visited the home of President Smith during social functions, but he could not remember that Mr, Smoot had ever accompanied him to the home of the president. Chairman Burrows asked In regard to the general conference. . Mr. Lyman said his wife had never accompanied liim to the general conferences confer-ences held in tho tabernacle, but that ho knew that the women did sometimes attond. He said he was acquainted with the wlvis of President Smith. Mr. Tayler read from the church i chronology, which 13 the record of the general conferences, In regard to the failure to uphold Moses Thatcher. Mr. Lyman explained the Incident, and in regard to Mr. Smoot declared that the latter had never asked him for consent to become a candidate for Senator. "Apostle Smoot never know I had more than one wife," said Mr. Lyman In answer to a question as to what the defendant knows of the polygamous state in which his brother officials are living Mr. Lyman said he had seen more than one of President Smith's wives at the official residence of the president at the same time. 'but on none of these occasions had Mr. Smoot been present-Mr. present-Mr. Lyman has charge of the work of sending out missionaries, and he Identified Iden-tified the books that are used In making converts. He said the apostles do, not look upon the Doctrine and' Covenants as one of the books for general gen-eral circulation. MISSIONARY INSTRUCTIONS. Mr. Lyman said missionaries always are thoroughly warned not to discuss polygamy, "because we have yielded that requirement of the law .not to teach the theory of polygamy." He said the missionaries never touch upon the subject unless the theory Is assailed. as-sailed. A "Do they defend or denounce it?" "They would not denounce It," said Mr. Lyman. He said that was the situation In regard to himself. In answer to a question by Senator Overman, Mr. Lyman said that despite the manifesto of 1890, the president of the church could Issue authority upon an elder to perform plural marriages. "Tho president holds the keys," said Mr. Lyman. "What do you mean?" "That he is the only one who has any authority' Mr Worthlngton nsked how it was that the president could issue authority In conflict with the manifesto, which Is said to be the law of God, and concluded his question thus: "Is he above the Lord?" "Oh, no, he Is not above the Lord." Chairman Burrows Inquired If any one was opposed for a position as apostle because of, the- polygamous cohabitation. co-habitation. "Only In tho event hlsvplural marriage mar-riage occurred since the manifesto," said Mr. Lyman. "How about Apostle Cowley?" asked Senator Dubois. "He was a polygamlst and was elected an apostle since 1S90." Mr. Worthlngton objected to the assumption as-sumption that Mr. Cowley's plural marriages mar-riages were known. "You say," said Mr. Burrows, "that missionaries aro Instructed not to go Into the mysteries of the church. Is polygamy one of the mysteries7" "Yes, I guess It would bo considered one of the mysteries now." Senator Petlus inquired concerning about the authority given Mr. Smoot to become a candidate for Senator, and Mr. Lyman said' consent" under a mile of the church must have been given by President Smith. Mr. Lyman said the principle of getting get-ting consent was that a shepherd could not leavo his flock of sheep until his successor came to take charge and therefore It was required that officials must get authority before leaving their official duties In the church. CHOSEN BY REVELATION. "Apostles Grant and Teasdalo were chosen by revelation to President Snow," said Mr. Lyman, "and a revelation revela-tion also was given In regard to theso men." He explained that tho latter revelation came after President Snow had told him the names of the men he wanted chosen to the vacancies. Mr. Lyman was asked what distinction he made between th,e revelations ho obeyed and those he did not obey. "I suppose you mean the laws I have confessed that I have violated In cohabiting co-habiting with plural vlves?" he asked. When told that was what was meant, he said: "I trust myself to the mercy of tho Lord " Have you ever repented of that diso bedience?" asked Mr. Hoar. "Not yet." "Did Senator Smoot know you were living with plural wives?" was asked. Mr. Lyman answered that Senator Smoot did not know, as he never had mot any of his wives. He said that the people in general in Utah knew, but that ho did not think Mr. Smoot had any knowledge of the fact He said he was so generally known and his reputation repu-tation was so wide that what was admitted ad-mitted as a fact In regard to him woul.l be accepted by the people as true. Chairman Burrows Insisted on knowing know-ing If the people of Utah knew In regard re-gard to his life why Senalor Smoot could not know Just as well. Tho witness wit-ness responded several times that the people must havo known but that Senator Sena-tor Smoot did not, whereupon Senator Hoar demanded to know what the witness wit-ness meant by such answers. The witness wit-ness then said Senator Smoot probably knew Just as much about the question as tho peoplo In general. "Do you take back what you said then that, the people knew and Senator Smoot did not know?" asked Senator Hoar. "I take that back." "Don't you think, Mr. Apostle, that It behooves you to be a little careful about what you say, so that you will not have anything to tako back?" asked the Senator Sen-ator severely. COACHED BY THE LORD. Senator Hoar followed this question by asking the witness if ho had received re-ceived a revelation concerning what he was to testify to on the stand, and whether such revelation could be responsible re-sponsible for his change of mind In regard re-gard to the questions asked. "Are your answers here by order of the Lord? Are they given In human or Inspired capacity?" the Senator asked. "I answer as the spirit of the Lord directs." "Then It was the s-j-It of the Lord which directed you .nake tho answer an-swer you Just took b nd which you said was a mistake'" Tho witness , hesitated and Senator Hoar remarked: "Well, if you can't answer an-swer that I don't blame you." Chairman Burrows After all of this testimony which Senator Smoot has heard, do you think ho now knows whether you are practicing polygamy? "I don't think he knows." "You think ho believes you when you tell him do you not?" "I believe he believes It and believes me." After much effort a statement was obtained from the witness that he thought Senator Smoot was acquainted with the general reputation and accepted accept-ed report that Mr. Lyman was living In polygamous cohabitation with his plural plu-ral wives. Chairman Burrows asked Mr. Lyman in regard to tho Reorganized Church of Latter-day Saints at Lamonla, la., of which a son of Joseph Smith, tho prophet. Is the head, and Mr. Lyman gave his Ideas of tho differences bo-tween bo-tween the two organizations. He was asked If the reorganized church did not denounce polygamy, and answered: "They denounce It so hard tli&t It almost al-most provokes us to defend It." Senator Dubois asked If the reorganized reorgan-ized church teaches absolute obedience to Its leaders, and was Informed by Lyman Ly-man that he understood the church was not very strenuous In that regard. SMOOT'S CANDIDACY. "Now, In regard to consent given Senator Sen-ator Smoot to become a candldato for Senator. Suppose President Smith had refused to give his consent, and Smoot had Insisted on becoming a candidate, what would have happened to him?" asked Senator Dubois. Mr. Lyman said Senator Smoot would have been disciplined, taken to task, reproved or corrected. He was asked what would havo happened In the evont President Smith had given his consent to another apostlo to become a candidate candi-date for the Senate. "I don't know. It would have made lots of confusion. We havo 'scraps' about this question when It come3 to us." Mr. Worthlngton having objected to the question concerning the belief of the reorganized church as irrelevant. Senator Sena-tor Hoar said that Senate Investigation was more llko a grand Jury Inquiry than a trial, and that they "were not confined to the narrow Issues of this question. If we had been I would not have put many of tho questions which I havo in this case." Mr. Worthlngton said ho had no objection ob-jection to tho testimony so long as It Is understood that Irrelevant matter will not be taken seriously by the committee. com-mittee. Mr. Tayler said It had been shown one of the religions was composed of peaceable, law-abiding citizens, while the other Is a menace to society and good governmont, and that "In the latter lat-ter case Senator Smoot is so woven into tho organization that wo hold he can not be extricated without cutting hinv-oolf hinv-oolf off entirely." 1 Mr. Worthlngton Inquired of Mr. Lyman Ly-man whether Senator Smoot could not resign his apostleship If he wanted to do anything which the church forbids and still remain a Mormon In good standing. The witness answered affirmatively. affirm-atively. Mr. Lyman told the story of an effort on tho part of Prophet Joseph Smith to get rid of one of the high councillors who had been chosen by revelation and tho refusal of tho people to submit to tho change. This was for the purpose of showing that the will of the people Is stronger than the wish or command of the president of the church. "Do you mean to say," asked Senator Hoar, "that a revelation from the Lord which had been rejected by the people would count for nothing?" "It would count for nothing for those who had rejected 1L" "Would It be binding upon the Instrument Instru-ment of the Lord who received the revelation? I mean if the revelation should be received by you and the people peo-ple refused to accept It, would It be binding upon you to follow the revelation revela-tion or to follow the wish of the people?" peo-ple?" "We should follow tho wish of tho people." "Well, how about you?" "I should be bound by what the people peo-ple direct." "Then," said Senator Hoar, "the volco of the people Is of more authority than the mandate of f the Lord?" "The law of the Lord Is whatever Is done by common consent'." "Then the Lord submits to the people peo-ple whatever he desires to have done, and If the people like It they give their consent That Is your belief, Is It?" "People have their rights, and they must be respected," answered the witness. wit-ness. "The Lord can't make tho peoplo do right or accept his laws. Man is left to follow his own agency In regard to religion, business and politics." "Then," persisted Senator Hoar, "where tho Lord has chosen certain persons as apostles, and the pedple do not care to accept the selection, what happens?" "The man always steps aside when the people reject." "They have a sort of veto power over the Lord, then?" Both tho prose-cution and defense announced an-nounced they had concluded with Apostle Apos-tle Lyman, and he was discharged. The committee adjourned until tomorrow. |