Show fY IN TU DEBATE l t Continued from Yesterday Mr Dubois D Mr President I do not care to enter into any controversy with the senator from Wyoming Mr Warren I was w s answering the allega tion in regard to polygamy The sen sea ator from Maryland Mr McComas stated that there would soon be ba a Mormon Morno Mor n majority in Arizona that the Morre s numbered of ot the population on now and td would soon be two fifths or I think he lie said sai or a majority I doubt that very much m ch So far as that is concerned states like Idaho and these proposed new states can easily control the Mormon people whenever they so 50 desire If the Mormon people should flagrantly through their first presidency those who have authority openly interfere int in politics In Idaho I would guarantee to take the stump tump in that state and disfranchise every Mor Mormon mon muon in one campaign Mr Hale Is it from the first in the different states or Is it from the first presidency In Utah i whom we e might call the primate prIm te of Utah that the Mormon people take their directions l Mr lr r Dubois They take their from the first presidency of the Mormon church which consists con of the president and two councilors who are selected from the apOstle quorum Quor n of twelve and who are called the second and third presidents the three being b known as the first presidency of the Monnon f church Hiir T Mr Hale Halon in each state Mr Dubois Dubots No in Utah This tri triumvirate triumvirate tn constitutes what hat is known as the first presidency of the Mormon i church They have a presidency of f the ther r is the highest authority in InI I Idaho The supreme power is given r these th se three president pr ln In n Utah U Mr Hale HaleIn In Utah Mr Dubois Yes They have dents in their different differ nt territories s and und states In Idaho for instance they have two or three presidents of stakes as they call them who are presidents over a large erea embracing a great many Mormons I imagine they have b ve a president of the stake in Wyoming Those presidents of the stakes have hae no authority politically over Oer their fol lowers They can be Republicans and go on the hustings hust as they the do and nd contend for the principles of the Re publican party but a Democratic Mor mon who occupies a very subordinate position in th the f church hiir Vi r can an n nc mm nt r thorn th m I 1 I I In just as s intemperate i language guage as s any public speaker answers another and will wilt not be checked for it it But when It is understood that the first presidency ncy wants something done they can enn send their orders out into Idaho and very eAtery where else se and they will ill be obeyed I say saya d at some ome other time I may take up this t is question again that if It were not for foI outsiders we would have settled this question But we can take care of It in these territories and states because what is being done is being done in a measure under cover and every time authority is exercised which we can trace pretty close to the first presidency It makes a tremendous dis disturbance disturbance and is bitterly resented not only by Gentiles but by many Mor Mormons Mormons Mormons mons as well Mr Hale Still it is a very serious condition which the senator has stated to us that this silent authority ac accountable c countable not to the time state not to the nation not to the officers of the l dency of the th state but to the central controlling potential force represented by the first president and his asso associates assocIates dates In Utah raises a very profound problem for the th senate senat 5 ma t to deal with wilb in these states The senator knows as ashe ashe ashe I he knows h ory that it has hs h been one of the most rop s t difficult things to deal with people who hold any allegiance aside I from that thatto to the government an alle aUe allegiance glance which may be as suggested to tome tome me by b the he senator S ruit r from Wisconsin Mr f Spooner an au allegiance but if not is ls dominating in the of or the person who ho is subject to that in influence influence influence I fluence The senator thinks that the states can deal with that question but it brings to my mind a clearer appreciation tion tio while hile we have abolished polygamy polygamy my as I think we have as a future I practice and I think the senator s is t about t to tn mv my mind m nd as never before the danger of or the th Influence of the Mormon church in those localities in the future as a dark element tha that cannot be penetrated by bythe bythe byI the light that usually illuminates and enlightens ns communities generally in the states It is an inside influence it is pernicious and may be fraught with the most serious mischief I think the senator feels that himself Mr Dubois I want to be perfectly 1 clear Of course the Mormon first presidency deny absolutely that they exercise this power They Insist that their hands are out of politics Mr Spooner Do they deny that they are politicians Mr Dubois They say that they do donot donot donot not try to exercise political control any anymore anymore anymore more than does the bishop of any other church and we e find a great grent many men like my m r friend the senator from Wy Wyoming Wyoming oming Mr Warren who has plenty of Mormons in his hi state who insist that the Mormon Monnon church Is no different from any other church They do not openly I proclaim this power nor do d they openly exercise this power I X think that no one will deny my statement that a great many of the younger element who have tasted the sweets sv of political life and nd who are candidates for tor office on a 3 ticket do not like to have orders issued from Salt Lake that the ticket on which they are running should be pe defeated In my ray state during the last campaign tn IC n one county where we had a ticket which ought to have been elected the leading lea Mormon of that county who was run running ning on n the ticket U ket saM said Wo We W had bet tc lc withdraw wo ur ticket because b the j church is going to defeat uS MS The young oung Mormons resented that very bit bitterly bitted bitterly terly ted For Fer the reason Ua that the first presidency is not proclaiming this power or openly exercising it headway is being made against this power con constantly constantly and steadily especially among the younger element of the church Mr Warren In speaking of ot Wyo rain min of course we have the younger members of the church Settlements in our state were made later than the th ear earlier earli earlien lien lier li settlements in Utah and Idaho Id ho I ask the senator in view of his state statement statement ment regarding the political attitude of O f the younger members when it comes 1 to the parting of the ways if he does not think there Is 15 the same tendency to exercise all the functions ns of citizen citizenship cItizenship citizenship ship regardless of 01 church c affiliations Mr Dubois I do ido Mr Warren That being so does not the senator think in New Mexico and Arizona these being newer new r settlements I that there the will wUl not be the same saute dIfficulty culty or ot the same degree of or difficulty I that the senator describes in his own state Mr Dubois I am not putting my may state in a different category from the others Mr Hale Why should it be differ different different ent eat Mr Dubois It is not different Mr Bacon Mr President The President pro tempore Does the senator from Idaho yield to the senator from Georgia Mr Dubois Dubols Certainly Mr Bacon Senators have all aU gotten together in a bunch over there and we cannot hear bear them It ia Is isa a very inter interesting interesting esting question and I hope they will get further apart Mr 11 Hale The senator f from Georgia is missing a 3 great deal Mr Jr Bacon BatonI I am trying to hear it but I cannot d if the senators all alt get within a few feet of each e other and each ach one talks to the th other Mr Dubois My contention is that in regard to every e subject these two ter territories territories territories are made madean madan an exception as they have been in almost everything every thins Judg ing lag from the experience rence In my own state arid and the experience in Wyoming I think the element will m al alwayn aliva always ways wayn iva largely predominate in these ter territories where Mormons s now how are I Ido Ido do not think there is any question for doubt In it regard to that The condi conditions conditions conditions are the same same in all aU those western estern states If there ther comes any flagrant interference by the first presidency these states hI enact i la laws law TVS t th l I idabo test oath removing rem the tb Mormons M r from all aU participation in politics or 1 I Iother other laws Jaws which will make it very uncomfortable for them The younger element Is helping us in our opposition to iQ church chur h interference Frankness compels me theand and I gladly do it to state the condition in that country as asI asi I r i understand tind rt it Mr 11 Teller TelIe With the consent of the senator who has the floor I wish to say a few words Mr Kean I yield to the senator from Colorado Mr Teller We have had in the state of Colorado for tor years a considerable population of Mormons We have never had any law Jaw against polygamy in the state We have had a Jaw law against bigamy and that has b ez sufficient to prevent any polygamous marriages or any polygamous relations in the state among the Mormon settle settlements ments roo There here are ar three th ree colonies or pr set of Mormons I do not myself believe that there has ever been any interference politically by the Mormon church with these com corn communities communities I think those of them who ho came ame from Utah had their political ideas very ery largely formed before they came to Colorado and quite q Ue a large proportion of them have never lived in Utah U h and have never been brought un der den the rigid subjection that perhaps the Mormons have encountered in that community In Colorado they the divide politically with a preponderance very ery largely to toward ward the Republican party and I un very well wen why that is The founders of the Mormon church were I great believers in the doctrine of pro protection protection That was as one of their car dinal economic Ideas Their purpose purposes was s to manufacture and produce every II 1 thing hing In the community In which they I lived Jived J that it was possible to produce or manufacture and to buy as little from the th outside as possible And not notwithstanding notwithstanding i I withstanding at one time they felt I there was very decided persecutions on I the part of the general government j I I which was then In the hands of a Re Republican i I publican administration very distin distinguished i i I j members of that church main maln J I tamed their allegiance alleg lance to the Republican I Ican can an party I II I agree with the senator from Idaho that the church is and whenever the church does speak through its first fIrs presidency I t have no doubt the great body of the th church would respond to the demand made But that such a demand is made or orv ever v r has been n made so far as our peo people pie are ar concerned cort ern d I r very ver much doubt That power which h ch the church secured to itself in its Us early days has been a great agent In colonizing and support supporting ing in that section se of the country countI Mr President I had an opportunity of knowing the very first founders of this church Some of them came from the immediate neighborhood in the state of New York where I was as born bornand bornand and brought brough up and nearly forty years ago go I came in contact conta t with these peo people people pie In Utah I think in all aU the th history of f this country u there has never been gathered together a more remarkable class elass of men me than that which gathered In Utah in inthe the early e history of ot that territory They were men pien of great ability t many mani of ot them hem men of fine edu education cation some of them classical scholars of t rio note nOfe r f Believe tr do not exaggerate when hen I r say siy that tha at Otto one nc time the finest firmest Hetre r lohr on err 0 the continent was w wC wa C 0 a member of the th Mormon M rm u hierarchy i Greek scholars they were i j historians and they had that enthusiasm 1 sm which alone carried success in an enterprise of ot that character Mr Preside President t that th t they practiced polygamy vigorously there for many man I years cannot connot conno be doubted I knew for fora a great many man years the president nt of or the church who Issued the manifesto m against polygamy I have no hesitation in saying saing here he Is dead that he was wasa a man of very eq great grat gr Intellect and a aman aman anan man nan whose honesty and integrity I never heard questioned by anybody in Or outside of Utah Mr Warren W Who was be he Mr Teller Mr Woodruff V And when he declared to the Mormon church that polygamy p must cease ceas he did not de do declare declare clare clam it as a man malta m ln According to the theory of that church he was the vice regent of the Almighty Al and It was an ane enunciation e to them th m pot pat of the Ute will of ol the te church chur h but of Q the time will ViII of God himself Mr Platt of Connecticut Conn cU utHe He claimed to have a revelation did he not Mr Teller TellerO Of course polygamy was established on Olt a claim of revelation and it was destroyed on the th claim of a revelation revel Uon Mr lr Bacon Who was ivas the officer to whom the senator referred Mr Teller Woodruff I I think the senator from Utah will agree with me that I do not overstate the character of or this man manI I do not mean to approve of ot the polygamy doctrine for tor or I am as much opposed to it as s is the senator from froni Idaho I am speaking of the people themselves and of their wonderful character and their wonderful success I have haye had some opportunity of at know knowing knowin knowing ing in about this matter I do not be as the senator from Idaho says there has been a polygamous marriage or a polygamous relation maintained except as he explained it I suppose it ii does exist in that wax w At one time when we were attempting by the na national tiona law and the national power to te destroy pOlygamy the man who would I I feed his little children born of a polygamous polygamous po wife trite could c be incarcerated i In prison Many I ny of ot the men who sup supported supported supported ported the women with whom they had ba lived and with whom they had bad reared children went to jail b because cause they fur furnished furnished fished food and clothing for their wives and children They might aban abandon abandon don dop them and leave them Ulem to starve and asic i the government would not prosecute but If It they fed them the government would prosecute i Mr Kean May I ask the senator from Colorado a question Mr Teller Certainly Mr Kean The senator seems to he be hewell bewell well informed on this subject Is not E polygamy practiced at the present tune time in Mexico by these same people Mr Teller I do not know anything E about the practice in Mexico Neither does the senator I believe Mr Kean I asked the question as I knew the senator from Colorado was wa well informed Mr Teller There is a colony In Mex rex ico There is a colony in a country countr of f whose people are mem members members bers of ot the Catholic Cath church and if II there are any people PePPIe p pp on the American Americas continent who enjoy a high character for the sanctity ot of the marriage vow you and the relation of the sexes it Is that thai church I should not believe without the most positive proof that any colony colon was allowed to practice polygamy in is the republic of Mexico I do not be lieve they do Mr President I was in is |