Show RAILROAD RATES AND STATEHOOD Debate in iii the Senate on the Former Measure Neasure Brings Out Vital Points of Difference LIVELY COLLOQUY ON BILL TILLMAN MAK S OME MATTERS MATTERS CLEAR Washington March there Is still a sharp difference of opinion be between between tween the supposed friends of the Dol railroad rate bill bUl was made decidedly manifest t tOday day in the senate chamber The division is over the question whether a rate made by bythe bythe the interstate commerce commission shall be suspended by the courts pend pending lug ing final adjudication and was brought to the surface in a brief debate which followed a set speech by Mr Clapp in support of the bill blU In reply to a ques question question tion by Mr Tiliman Mr Clapp ex expressed expressed pressed doubt as to the power so to leg legislate legislate as to enforce penalties proposed by the bill bUI pending a review of any given finding by the courts Created Much Interest Then Mr address he was questioned by Mr Till TIU Tillman man as to his of the thirty day provision in the rate bill and the brief colloquy that ensued caused a great of interest Mr Tillman Tiliman asked l Mr Clapp if he in interpreted Interpreted the bill to mean that any cir circuit cult judge or district judge upon corn com complaint plaint could suspend the order of the commission until the litigation was completed and Mr lIr Clapp replied uNo No not in a thousand years He added that what he had said was that where the court suspended this order pendente lite it only operates as the expression of the purpose of the cour court but in view of the language of the pro provisIon provision visIon unless the same shall be sus suspended sus suspended also operated as the purpose and will of the legislature as to its not being in fact yet suspended and com consequently the carrier obtaining this temporary restraining order would not notIe le Ie liable for the penalty of a day in the meantime if the restraining order was finally vacated Would Mean No Relief This statement of the Minnesota sen senators senators position had the effect of elicit eliciting elicitIng ing the following from the South Caro If he said the penalty of a ada aday da day is suspended by an order of the cour court pending the litigation where Is your punishment to compel the carrier ever to obey an order Is not the I whole case given atay if the senators I contention as to the interpretation ot these words is right Are we not face to face fac with an absolute surrender of the relief to the shipper Mr Clapp responded I think we are face to face with the statement from which I read and I can cannot cannot not place it any better than it was placed by the senator from Pennsylva Pennsylvania nia Mr Knox when he said Of course I do not mean that in an inde independent pendent proceeding begun in court the court could not in the exercise of Its discretionary powers when satisfied that the rate fixed by the commission was unlawful enjoin its operation until untila a final hearing That is a power that inheres in the court that need not be conferred by statute and probably can cannot cannot not be taken away by a statute Continuing Mr Clapp said We are face to face with the prop proposition proposition that if congress fixed a rate be below below low what the law rec as a rca rea reasonable rate then clearly you are in invading invading the property rights of the car carrier ncr rier Views of Mr Bailey In response to an inquiry from Mr Bailey as to whether he would not join in an effort to secure to the bill which would retain in effect rates fixed by the commission until determined by the courts Mr Claim said h he could not on the ground that such a provision would the very life of the proposed law Jaw Mr Bailey did not accept the doc doctrine trine that congress had riot not the power to forbid a suspension of rates but said that if such was the case the Spooner impound amendment should be a accept accepted ed cd He did not believe in closing the doors of the courts to an any one but In Insisted insisted that until the courts should con conclude elude clude their investigations and reach a final verdict the rate of the commission should continue in effect Congress Has Power Mr Nelson asked Mr Bailey if he held that congress had any more power ower to prohibit a court from issuing a tern tem temporary injunction than from issuing a final injunction and the Texas senator replied that he had no doubt that con congress congress gress had power to provide against an Interlocutory order for he said if con congress congress gress had power to establish a rate it was not unreasonable to ask that it should remaIn in effect until the ques question question tion at issue was finally determined He did not believe that any judge who might be brought into a case should have the power to suspend the order of the commission Taken as a whole he said federal judges are upright men but I will be amazed if the railroads are hot able to tomake tomake make out a case If they can get the rate suspended while the suit is finding its way to final unless we can secure such legislation as will hold a rate established by the commis commission commission sion we are storing up p a dIsappointment for the people of f the United States Spinal Cord of the Question Mr TilIman evidently had been very nervous while the debate was proceed proceeding ing and he secured the floor as soon as ashe ashe he could conveniently do so He spoke for only a moment and said The uThe interpretation given by the sen senator senator ator from Minnesota is absolutely con contrary contrary to my understanding This is a most important difference to my mind It is the spinal cord of this whole ques question question tion If congress is to hedge about by judicial decrees we shall have to re reform reform form the supreme court for the people are determined to have relief The announcement of this sentiment elicited scattering applause In the gal galleries galleries The statehood bill bUl was then taken UP and Mr Perkins spoke In opposition to the union of Arizona and New MexIco He expressed his conviction that Ari An Arizona Anzona zona was prepared for single state statehood statehood hood Mr Foraker announced his purpose to offer an amendment confinIng the oper operation operation of the bill to Oklahoma and In Indian Indian dian Territory The senate went Into executive sea ses slon sion at and at p m adjourned until U tomorrow |