Show I BI HOP STEVENS DENIES IT ALL The Ogden Man Was Very Hard to Find I I I I I CHARGES MR MONSON I 1 The Bishop Says He Has nixed Things Up Positively Denies That lIe Ever Told j Him the Church Had Appointed a Committee to Look After Leg fA islatlve Matters Digest of the Second Open Letter of Hon E B CritchloTV Views of Horn Lee 1 Cnrtia E JJI Allison and A S Condon I J In view of the statement made in Mr Critchlows open letter over the signature of Hon Joseph Monsott with reference to Bishop Stevens and the i alleged junta there was an immediate I desire to hear what Mr Stevens had I to say on the subject Early in the I day a Herald representative called at I that gentlemans residence in Ogden but was told that he war not at home and that no accurate information could be given as to where he was or when he might be expected to return KS it was said he was very irregular in his coming and goings All day long these visits were repeated I re-peated at frequent intervals not only I by the newspaper men but by citizens I anxious to learn of his whereabouts and get his statement of the case He could not he found elsewhere in the city but to all alike was the statement made at his door that he was not in 4 HON LEE CURTIS I The Herald representative meanwhile I mean-while called on Mr Stevens colleagues to get their view of the matter as to whether church influence was directly used or not Hon Lee Curtis said I 1 cannot answer yes nor can I answer no There were some strange things happened wblch I can not account for and which I could vount for if I knew this condition existed The Mormon Mor-mon members as a rule worked together to-gether In nisny ways showing a tendency to ignore party lines more I than the Gentiles did Still I do not say the condition existed nor do I say it tlld not r frdjDjjipt know and would I have been the last man to whom such a secret would have been imparted I have great confidence in Hr Monsons I ability and integrity SENATOR ALLISON I Hon E M Allison said < There is no question but what such results were accomplished whether they were brought about by a committee appointed i appoint-ed or not The Mormons certainly threw aside distinctions on matters closely affecting their church institu tons Particularly was this the case 4 with the bill for the act defining adultery i adul-tery polygamy fornication and incest I which was passed by the house but unexpectedly defeated in the senate In the opinion of many there Is now no law punishing these crimes crmes The result described in Mr Critch lows letter was certainly accomplished whether by a committee or otherwise I cannot say I heard almost daily complaints from members of the house that such methods were being used Hon A S Condon was approached I I by The Herald reporter and said he did not care at this time t nter the controversy but later he might have something to say In reply to the reporters questions he had nothing but praise for Mr Critchlow and Mr Monson He said Mr Critchlow and he often had wordy battles In the house but there was no man whom he respected more for his sincere motives pure character and good judgment A similar tribute was paid to Mr Monson Meanwhile all efforts to find Mr Stevens had failed and the regular Herald man weary of so much fruitless fruit-less tramping asked a young lady stenographer In the employ of the l paper to call at Mr Stevens residence and try her 1 c At first she was refused permission to see her bishop but after a long delay 1 de-lay and as she ha started away she J was called back and told that she might see the gentleman if her business va0 pressing FOUND AT LAST Mr Stevens greeted her cordially but sefimed very much surprised when froiA beneath her jacket she drew anew a-new paper and asked for 3 statement regarding the matter contained In the 2Iouson letter saying she represented the Salt Lake Heralds Ogden bureau Finally Mr Stevens said that there were many things in Mr Critchlows letter tat were untrue but that he did not care to have his name in the papei so much and he preferred not to make any statement just at this time He apologized for his haste in terminating ter-minating the Interview saying that he I wa preparing a letter which must leave on the 620 oclock train I w an Important letter he said and he had been working on It already a longtime long-time but j was not yet finished f CONSENTS TO TALK I Later In the evening Mr Stevens was I seen and consented to an interview He explained his aosence during the forepart fore-part of the day by saying that he was out visiting in his ward He said he was astonished at reading 4 3Ir Monsons let r and that Mr Mon son was certainly mistaken He did notitnini that gentleman would intentionally Inten-tionally Misrepresent the facts but c thought he had confused had confused something which he said with what some other person ad said He remembered a conversation with ilr Monson where he talked f one churchman to an other but made no such statements as those reported by tab gentleman Some of the statements in the letter were entirely untrue He thought the 3ape of time might well have caused a t laP Jap of memory e Mr Monsons part the conversation had for e conoerton taken place I tt beginning of the session He c 3sr jiljneK could lo remember all of It < t uf h1 a sure that many things 1 we attributed to him which he could we E0t4toav salfl He spoke to Mr Mon gouSMKl casually asked if he belonged to the church a he thought he must 4 r e o l f = 1 r i r < = B since he came from Cache county and from this they got to talking of legislation leg-islation THAT COMMITTEE Mr Stevens had announced his intention in-tention of consulting with his intimate friends who had had legislative experience exper-ience and he named a number of them including James Sharp and Franklin Richards and possibly Judge King They were all his friends However said Mr Stevens I did not say at that time nor at any other time that a committee had been appointed tme pointed to look after legislation Mr Monson has made a great mistake I never named other than those three names to Mr Monson even as friends who would aid me with advice They had had more legislative experience seeking advice than I and I think my seeing from them was entirely fitting and proper a duty that owed to my von stituents I did consult them and sttuents others a great many times among them Judges Rolapp Miner and Bartch Mr Stevens said that he had heard of the committee or junta while the legislature was yet in session but personally knew nothing about it He had met with no gentlemen appointed ap-pointed as a committee The counsel he had received had been from private individuals at his request THE VISIT TO PRESIDENT CAN NON Mr Stevens further said I was what from my custom to get counsel ever source I could get i 1 went once with Smoot of Provo to see George Q Cannon about my school bill The visit was very unsatisfactory because he said he had not time to consider it and thought we had better consult others You remember that I sent you a copy of the school bill with a request for suggestions I did likewise in many many cases I dont want to prolong this controversy as it will do no good but of this I am positive thai Mr Monson was very much mistaken Mr Critchlows Letter Mr Critchlows open letter which appeared ap-peared In the Tribune of yesterday morning was an amplification of the interview in-terview with him which appeared in The Herald or the previous day I begins with a reference to his previous letter in which he made the charge that the Mormon church authorities had appointed a committee or junta at the late ses to influence legislation the ss sin of the legislature He says that letter was not hastily or inconsiderately inconsider-ately written and that if he had made the charge without proof or even upon insufficient proof he ought to be held up to public scorn and derision a a common defamer but on the other hand if the proof is evident and the facts appear ap-pear it is the duty of every citizen to speak Then he submits some of the proofs and states that there are others which will be offered from time to time THE GOVERNORS DENIAL Referring to Governor Wells denial of the charges Mr Critchlow says that it is unaccountable that he chose I to defend himself against an imaginary attack a no accusation either direct or I atack implied had been made against his excellency He believes that the gover existence of nor was ignorant of the of the junta as were also some of the Mormon legislators fr 1 whom It wa kept a secret Not says the open letter that we the members of the house were unconscious of such influences in-fluences I appeal to every member of the house for the truth of my statement that we felt comment tnat certain mem on very many questions certin hers were obtaining elsewhere higher ber and pnrer light than any which could be imparted by fellow members but through what channel the illumination came I frankly admit I did not know In the house Mr Critchlow says not every measure was decided In accordance accord-ance with the wish of the junta but the gist of the offense is in the attempt at-tempt The success or failure of K is to a certain extent immaterial MR MONSONS STATEMENT The open letter then quotes the statement of Mr Monson of Cache county 3 man of standing intelligence and reputation a follows Salt Lake City April 15 1896 Hon City E B Critchlow Salt Lake Dear Sir Tours of even date to hand and contents noted In reply to I have your inquiry a to what reason for believing that a committee was appointed ap-pointed beleving lok after matters with reference ref-erence to legislation permit me to say that while I have been somewhat reluctant re-luctant in expressing myself in regard to details that caused me to believe detais tat that such a committee had an existence exist-ence and that they were appointed by some one in authority in the dominant church nevertheless I shall now endeavor en-deavor to be frank with you During the first week or ten days of Durng the legislature I had a conversation with Bishop Stevens of Ogden which was substantially a follows Mr Stevens Mr Monson i it is a fair question permit me to ask are you a member of the church Mr Monson Yes sir Mr SDa you hold any office in the church I Mr MNot of any consequence Ian I-an however clerk of the thirtyninth quorum of seventies Mr SI suppose then that I can talk with you in regard to matters that interest us all L Mr MTflat depends aitogetner upon what subject yon desire to talk Mr SIt is simply this The brethren breth-ren realize that most of us are inexperienced inex-perienced in matters pertaining to legislation leg-islation and have therefore appointed some of the brethren who have had experience ex-perience SCe to look after legislative matters mat-ters with the view of preventing vicious vici-ous legislation and I think we should stand together on these propositions irrespective of party Mr M Whom have they appointed to look after this matter Mr SThey have appointed Brother Bro-ther Penrose Judge King and Brother F S Richards all of whom are good staunch Democrats Mr MWhy did they not appoint some Republicans Mr SThey have They have appointed ap-pointed W W Riter James Sharp and Prof J M Tanner The above conversation explains my reasons for believing as I do with reference refer-ence to this matter and having confidence dence then a I have now in Mr Stevens Stev-ens 1 have been led to believe that such a committee existed and that they were appointed by some one high in authority in the church that any evil was intended I do not believe but that the facts are as above stated In my opinion is absolutely certain Feeling a I do that in the interest of our new state and harmony between be-tween the citizens of our commonwealth common-wealth Irrespective o our religious faiths or beliefs color or creed we cannot afford to be other than honest with each other and trusting the above will answer yourinqulry satisfactorily Iam sir yours truly 4 JOSEPH MONSON If ijhe question is raised as to the reliability of this statement continues Mr Critchlow it must be raised Tjy M Bishop Stevens I hazard nothing in Continued on Page 5 r BSHOP STEYENS 0 DENIS IT ALL Continued from page 1 saying that it will not be raised by h any one else who knows the two men least of all by any member of the house of representatives it repreenttves ITER SAYS THERE WAS A i L JUNTA Mr Samuel Riter lives at Logan XJtah He is a brother of William W I Kiter member of the junta Something Some-thing over two weeks before the close of the session 3Ir Riter at Logan informed in-formed several gentlemen that his brother bro-ther William W was a member of the committee engaged in looking after af-ter the work of the governor and legis gvernor I lature and that the other members I C the committee were King Richards Penrose and Sharp Having no express I authority from these gentlemen who are well known and prominent I take the liberty bf withholding their names at least until Mr Sam Biter makes some denial Rier maes I I Mr Critchlow then refers to the bill k conferring on the B Y college power to grant degrees Professor Kerr framed the bill which was introduced I in the house by Mr Critchlow The later thought it needed slight amendments amend-ments and suggested to Mr Kerr that he see Mr Richards or Mr Rollins for j any suggestions Upon the theory that matters of that sort went under the I legal supervision of Mr Richards as i i church attorney Mr Critchlow mailed J a copy of the bill to Mr Richards but that gentleman afterwards verbally I told Mr Critchlow Crichlow that I was not a matter in which he had any concern I whatever This in the light of a state msnt made by Mr Richards in the Tribune of the 14th instant that he had called in Messrs Sharp Riter King J C Penrose and Tanner the other members I of the junta to advise with him in I regard to the measure does not seem to Mr Critchlow to bear out Mr Richards j I other statement that the bill was not a matter In which he had any concern j After the governors veto was received I 4 re-ceived the judiciary committee of the I house recommended Its passage over i I the veto On the request of Bishop j Stevens the vote was postponed until the next day Opposition to its passage unt pass-age over the veto was found and such I t opposition came from C W Penrose MEETS THE JUNTA Mr Kerr who was working for the 1 pasage of the measure was invited to I meet Mr Penrose at Mr Richards office of-fice in the McCornick block to discuss II the matter On going there Mr Ken found not an Informal gathering but a formal committee in session Mr I I Richards presiding Mr Kerr addressed the committee in favor of the bill and during the whole of the bl from I time to time those present Messrs j I Sharp Penrose Riter King and Richards Rich-ards referred to themselves a a committee com-mittee The motion was made and seconded that the committee do not recede I re-cede from the adverse advice already given which motion prevailed Sharp i J Penrose and Biter voting aye and L King no the chair not voting j Professor Kerr then said he did not i recognize the right of the committee j to control and that he would work for I the passage of the bill harder than ever I passed the house Mr Critchlow says notwithstanding the active notwihstanding very lobby ing of Mr Penrose on the floor of the house who in the course of his lobby 1 Ing urged at least one member of the house who can be named to vote I against the bill as the brethren did not I want It to pass Meanwhile the governor gover-nor had withdrawn his objections and C I was willing that his veto should be overridden In the senate says Mr I Critchlow the bill failed Why I can not say further than that a number of gentlemen who within a few hours had expressed themselves to Professor Kerr as being In its favor unaccountably voted against it giving no reason SUBMITTED TO PRESIDENT CANNON CAN-NON While the bill was under consideration t considera-tion by the governor Mr Critchlow says i was procured by Professor Tal mage and kept two or three days and J ii during that time was as explained by Mr George Q Cannons interview j in the Tribune of the 14th instant under un-der advisement by Mr Cannon and Professor Talmage appeared In the I house and assured Professor Kerr that ne was in no way opposed to the bill I The statement of George Q Cannon that he had talked with a member of the legislature about this bill and referred I re-ferred him to Messrs Sharp Richards Riter and possibly Judge King members mem-bers of the junta Mr Critchlow thinks I very good corroborative evidence in the light of what had gone before that I these parties composed a church junta I at least it was a strange coincidence I i L that the minds of Mr Richards and Mr Cannon should by different methods arrive at the same conclusion to have the bill submitted to those gentlemen j MR DALES TESTIMONY About ten days before the legislature i adjourned City Councilman Dale was informed by a friend that Messrs Ri ter Sharp King Penrose and Richards had been appointed a steering committee com-mittee > On the day succeeding the adjourn ment of the legislature or tho next day which would be either Thursday i or Friday of last week Mr D was in a business house on Main street engaged I t en-gaged i conversation with a gentleman I gentle-man connected with the concern when j f Mr W W Riter entered and left with I I Mr Dales companion a paper connected connec-ted with some business matter Addressing i ii Ad-dressing Riter the gentleman said j Well your job is over now is i I i Mr Riter replied Yes Im through To a further question as to 7hether he had not had a pretty hard time of i Riter replied in substapce that there had been a great deal of work connected I connect-ed with it and passed out Mr Dale then said Biter must have had a i pretty hard time of i on that steering i steer-ing committee His companion affected atec ted ignoranre and asked what steer I ins committee i Why was the reply that committee I I 1 commit-tee appointed by the church to look I I after the governor and legislature 1 His companion then said How th I devil did you get onto that Dale then drew from his pocket the memorandum J book and showed the five names there written The business man who is a I prominent Mormon then went over the I list with him and picking out one I name that of W H King made a j I mark opposite it and remarked that as 1 i to him he could not positively say j i whether he was a member or not but I C that one name was lacking towit p that of J M Tanner and Mr Dale j I thereupon wrote i down upon the list I After further conversation concerning I the men the business man informed I j him that he had first become aware of I the existence of the I eistence committee sometime i some-time during the session when Mr Ri ter brought to him the revenue bill for him to look over the Idea conveyed convey-ed being that he Biter desired suggestions sug-gestions to be made to him concernIng r concern-Ing Jts I Is but just to say that the I I t name of the gentleman with whom t Mr Dale had the conversation is suppressed sup-pressed only because I have no ex press authority from him to use it The editorial In the Deseret News of the ISth inst is referred to a anad mission of the truth of all the charges made by Mr Critchlow The fact of Heber J Grant going t b the church frt presidency to inquire if he had been appointed a member of a committee to supervise the work tjf the legislature is referred to as pretty conclusive evidence that such a committee existed although Mr Grant u c D f says he was informed at the first presidency that no such committee had been appointed and consequently he could not have been appointed a member mem-ber of i THE HERALD INTERVIEWS Mr Critchlow then takes up the interviews in-terviews with the several members of the alleged junta as published in The Herald of last Monday and proceeds in lawyerlike fashion to demolish as far a may be the denials of those gentlemen alleging that some of the gentlemen meant their language to betaken be-taken a having a Pickwickian meaning mean-ing and that others evaded the real point at issue and asa matter of fact were more In the nature of admissions than denials S ELEVEN COUNTS I 1 Summing up thewhole situation Mr Critchlow says I appeal to the people of this state to know whether they are satisfied with this state of affairs I ask them to make true answers to a few propositions proposi-tions which I set forth as corollaries to the facts above recited FirstHave the Mormon leaders under the name of the priesthood asserted as-serted their right to counsel In all matters political as well as otherwise and that they should not be questioned i or condemned for i they give wrong counsel God would deal with them Second Has not the correlative duty of unquestioning obedience to such counsel been enjoined Third Was not the late conference given up to the teaching of these views and to the acknowledgment and confession of such right and duty by those who had previously seemingly entertained a different view and by dropping4 from the list of apostles presented pre-sented tQ the conference one individual for nonconformity Fourth Was i not to be expected that those believelng in this right and duty in accordance with It whether In or out of the legislature would seek tae guidance and counsel of the priesthood priest-hood as to what they should do Fifth Is i not admitted by George Q Cannon and others that when the legislature convened Mormons and nonMormons and at least one member mem-ber of the legislature called on the presidency to procure legislation Sixth It It not admitted that the priesthood while not essaying to advise ad-vise directly to avoid the accusation I interfering with the affairs si state referred their petitioners and suppli charged by i i cants not to legislators the people under the constitution with 1 i the power and responsibility of legis latlon but to sx persons all members lof and in close relations with the church Seventh Sow could the wisdom and experience of those Mormon referees avail to enact or prevent the enactment enact-ment of laws l unless they were also clothed with some potency to control or manipulate legislators Eighth If the purpose of this church reference tribunal was honorable why was Its existence kept In the dark and confided only to those Mormon members mem-bers who might be supposed to acknowledge ac-knowledge the right of the priesthood or those set apart by it for that purpose pur-pose to guide and counsel in affairs political NinthWhy do the persons to whom the reference was made seek to disclaim dis-claim that persons were referred to them by the cnurch leaders when the latter admit the fact and the former must have known It and as the proof shows acted In that capacity TenthDid six persons all members of one church three of one party and three of the other come together by accident or design Were they self I appointed or otherwise to make law for the lawmakers I The governor disclaims them and it is not claimed that the members of the legislature appointed them I I selfappointed when ever before did modest gentlemen become so presumptuous pre-sumptuous The only remaining and last alternative is that they were the conduit throtgh which the messages of the church could be covertly conveyed con-veyed to such legislators as might li 1 expected knowing the key to give heed I EleventhIs this the meaning or tnat tpart of section 4 of article one of the constitution of Utah which declares I There shall be no union of church and state not shall any church dominate I domin-ate the state or interfere with its functions func-tions and was that meaning ever read Into or out of these words prior to the admission of Utah into the Union When this clause of the constitution con-stitution was adopted was there a secret reservation in behalf of Richards Rich-ards Penrose Tanner et aI There should be a new manifesto a new declaration of political independence lest midst free institutions perish in our |