Show GRANTS DEPOSITION Jnthe Ksli Trial sNow in Progress Pro-gress A PLAIN UNTARNISHED TALE The Generals Connection With Ward Grant Before tho Big Failure Grants Deposition NEW YORK March27 The testimony of General Grant taken in his house yesterday by James H Fish official stenographer of the court in which the trial of ExPresident Fish of the Marine bank is proceeding was read today in court General Grant testified as fol lows ipon examination by counsel for the defendant I By Mr ClarkYou were a partner in the firm of Grant l Ward AYes sir I am informed I was at the time the failure took place I never kneW I was anything else than a special partner clear to the end I paid in 50000 first and then afterward 50000 more 1 dont remember the dates 1 raid in 100000 QLOn the 1st of May 1884 what did you understand you were worth about what AI supposed that I was worth well ugh to 1000000 I had no suspicion of any rascality and therefore there was nothing to confine my mind to any wch dates Regarding my first cquaintance with Fish I suppose it was upon the introduction by my son and Mr Ward I suppose If you should go clear back that it was my son who got acquainted with erdinand Ward through Wards brother and that the acquaintance was led on to in that way The man was upposed so far as I ever knew to be a reputable banker until after the failure anQ it was not astonishing that any per son should make his acquaintance I had a dim recollection after the failure of receiving a letter from Fish while Iras I-ras living at Long Branch I went down there about the middle of June I dont uppose that I ever saw the one that was published I have a recollection of receiving ceiving the letter and sitting down and writing an answer once and the sub stance of my answer was that I had a good deal to do that had and that it was doubtful when I should be able to gQ to see him that if I could I would butthat I believed the matters his firm were engaged in were all right Some thing like that Haventyou any recollection as to what has hfiramft Hint Ipttor of Aft J isle I ANo sir I have not I havenever been in the habit of preserving private letters and if 1 was to try I suppose I shOuld make a poor record My business busi-ness in life has been such that some body else has always taken care of my letters that had ought to be saved and the only way I have now of preserving a letter that I wish to preserve until I do something with it is to put it in my side coat pocket or put it in the drawer where I write and then when I want to look for a letter it is about the last one I find I might state here although I dont know whether would have any effect or not that at the time I went into the firmH had a very small income but I had some money th tmy sOn had saved for me while I was gone abroad somemoney that I had left and which lie had so managed that I had saved some of it and he proposed to let l rile have half of his in the firm sothat I would have an income to live upon and there was afterwards an income raised for me and after that the firm generously gener-ously concluded 10 let me in as ohalf partner and then afterward as a whole partner special not general generously as I thought at the time Crossexamined by counsel for the government by Mr RootGen Grant what was the hour at which you were accustomed to reach your office in the morning when you were staying at Long Branch in thisummer OU883 t ATen oclock was about my arriv lug time 5 QDid you observe in the letter which you received from Mr Fish and L to which your letter which has been identified by you and which is entirely jour handwriting was an answer any reference to the government contract con-tract ANo there was not I had told L Mr Ward when it was mentioned that there never must be any government t contracts there There is nothing wrong in being engaged in government I contracts more than in anything else unless made wrong by nets of individuals individ-uals but I had been President of the United States and I did not think it advisable for me to have my name connected with government gov-ernment contracts and I knew there was no large profit in them except by ra dishonest measures There are some men who get government contracts year in and year out and whether they managed their affairs dishonestly to make profit orjiot they are supposed to and Idid not think it was any place for me QAud you did not find in that letter that you received any reference to any thingpf that sort AI did not find anything of that sort or I Should have stopped it but as a matter of fact I mav never have seen that letter Mr Ward may just simply have given me a statement of the contents of that letter when at his office Q What did you understand to be the relations of the firm of Grant 5 Ward to the Marine bank AWeil I knew Ward was a director there and seemed to have a great deed to dp with it but I never suspected therebeiflg anything wrong about it QDid you akany time know or understand that the firm of Grant Ck Ward had engaged in government contracts con-tracts or in furnishing money to be used in carrying out government contracts con-tracts AI never knew of but one contract t that isz where he said there were transactions of that kind and 1 questioned him about and he said he had just been out and bought 350000 I V bushels of oats I think it wasand there was quite a quantity more to be purchased pur-chased in Chicago to be delivered He told me the date when it was to be de livered and that the contractor hadnt money to do it with and that he was doing it for a certain amount a stipu lated amount but the contract was to other parties and I said that I did not see that there was anything the matter with tHat A man had a contract from government for a quantity of oats and oats was an article that could be purchased pur-chased very easily on the Chicago mar Ket and I said I didnt see anything wrong in that as we had no contract Then afterward I began to hear and that wasnt long before the failure whispers around that he was saying that he had government con tracts and I questioned him about it and he said that he had no such thing He said he wouldnt do anything that was going to injure me or anything I requested him not to do and he said he had no contracts anywhere It had been said that he had city contracts and he as mock as said to me that he was very well acquainted with the city officials and that made it easy for him te get contracts from the city and I told hun 1 didnt Know whether there was much difference in contract for New York City and those made by the government the United States so far as that is concerned then he told me he had never a contract at all of any kind with the government of the United States or with the city of New York That was the way he did Andhe gave me an instance in-stance he says Now here is a man has a section of railroad and I dont know what road it was it was a road going through Pittsburg I think connected con-nected with the Reading road he said there was a man had a section of that road to build and he said that that man if he could have money furnished for his horses and his tools and his ittle steam engine and everything he needed there he could work to very much better advantage on his contract and that the firm of Grant Ward were to let him have the money to do that contract let him have the money to get along with Well I said ft doesnt seem to me that that is very good security I shouldnt regard hat t as very good security for your money and mine a man that has taken a contract and cant pay for the horses and steam engines and picks and plbws and shovels and so cant be very good s ecurity for money Oh but he aid we keep the contract in our posses ion and the money is all paid into our tfice The road he said held back 10 per > cent until the work was done and they paid the contractor for every sub ivision I dont know what length o f road that was that was paid for but they kept back 1 0 per cent of the contract and that is t he way he explained it and I supposed he was more of a business man than I I EIiit fu1rserl v ifBS3 wl1i lw1 went out to the western part of Pennsylvania Pennsyl-vania in the winter and Fish was along and a party gentlemen and we had a special car Ward was with the party but he wasnt discussed at all Colonel Grant was along and there was Mr Fish and Ferdinand Ward and Joseph R Smith Mayor Nelson and J Nelson of Tappan City Chamberlain and the treasurer of the road Mr SpencerDid Fish converse at all about the businessof Grant Ward AI dont think he ever did I made a remark I recollect that Ward was a man of wonderful ability of wonderful business capacity or some thing like that and Fish said ho never had got anything so good in his life before QYou didnt draw from the firm of Grant Ward the profits which you were led to suppose had been made ANo I did not I left them therewith there-with the concern and everything I had beside and I havent got it out I had some little items but I dont know what amount that were purchased by some of them for me with the money of the firm that were profits ot the firm they never were purchased but then they were supposed to be and I was charged with the purchase of them QYou drew if r understand correctly cor-rectly from the firm at the rate of i2QOO a month during theyear 1883 AYes QAnd at the rate of 3000 a month during the early part of 1884 AYes QUp to the time of the failure 1Yes sir QAnd that was the limit of your drafts upon the firmA firm-A That was the limit of my drafts QAs I understand it General Grant everything you had was lost in the failure of that firmA firm-A I had in the wod went Ward came up here on the Sunday Sun-day night before the failure and asked me to go down with him to see Mr New comb to see if couldnt get 150000 from him That he had himself raised 230000 and that if he could raise i5Q 000 it would carry the Marine bank through that we had 060000 in the Marine bank besides 1 300000 of securities in our Vaults that we should be inconvenienced very much if we couldnt carry the bank through and he said the Marine bank was all sound and solid if we had time to collect in or draw ona little of its time loans j and I went down therewith there-with him and Newcomb was not at home and he asked if I knew Wm H Vanderbilt wellenough to ask him and I after some little hesitation said I did and Vanderbilt loaned it to me without hesitation He said at the tune he gave it mo that he was lending it tome and that he had no recollection of ever having done such a thing before be-fore but that he would do it for me Well that has taken all the remaining property I had QThe representation of Ward to you was that your firm was in danger on account of the critical condition o f the Marine bank AYes sir lIe said that we had 1300000 01 unpledged security in our vault QNow did Fish at any time during dur-ing the spring of 1884 communicato to you any distrust on the part of Ward ANo sir If he did I should have been very ready I have no doubt to I take distrust Redirect by defendants counsel I had no distrust of Ward the night before be-fore the failure not the slightest and I recollect mv son U S Grant after the failure saW Fred would dm0 out ngb t = 1 j fIt yet He had no doubt he would rome t out right for he had such profound it friendship for his brother Will Ward r He didnt believe it was possible for I 3 him to do a dishonest act It took rae a i day or two to believe was possible that Ward had committed the act he had hadBy Mr Clark Exactly what was it T 1 cording to your present recollection that Ward Said on the Sunday before the failure in respect to the securities of k I the firm in the Marine Bank l AHe didnt say he had any securi ties in t I in the Marine Back He spoke of our own private securities is the way I 41 understood it that we had 81300000 c in our vault and had we 700000 and T 11 odd money in the Marine Bank Qihat was Mr Wards statement t 1 to yon on Sunday AYes sir 1 i i4 |