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Show WOULD HIT ' TfiE SIZE OF FOUNDATIONS . Samuel Untermyer Is First Witness at Investigation j of Philanthropic Organizations. MAKES ATTACK ON THE "MONEY TRUST" Roger W. Babson Declares Wage Should Be Regulated Regu-lated by Law of Sup- ply and Demand. XEW YORK, Jan. IS. Samuel Untermyer of New York, who was counsel to the Pujo congressional committee com-mittee which investigated the so-called money trust, and Boger Vs. Babson of TVellesloy Hills. Mass., statistician, were the two witnesses who testified today at the opening session of the investigation in-vestigation of the federal industrial relations commission into the country's great philanthropic organizations, namely: name-ly: The Rockefeller, Carnegie, Sage, Cleveland (Ohio) and Baron de Hirsch foundations. Mr. Untermyer contended that, while philanthropic foundations were ably managed and administered, the laws governing them should be revised. He advocated federal charters, a limitation as to size, representation by federal trustees when the present trustees begin be-gin to retire, and a prohibition against the accumulation of income. Absentee Control. Both witnesses assailed the "absentee "ab-sentee control" exercised over many of the country's leading industries as being not only unfair to workers, but unusually contrary to good business practice. Mr. Untermyer also asserted that in his opinion the "illicit gathering of money" in certain quarters had been the direct cause of much poverty, and that nearly all the railroads and other great corporations were under the complete com-plete control of the banking interests which reorganized them after they had become insolvent. The situation had narrowed down in railroad matters, he their operation could be decided in one office. The concentration of power and capital was grossly unfair to labor, he said. The witness then proposed that there should be established, federal exchanges ex-changes similar to which those which existed in Germany before the war, compulsory state regulated insurance against unemployment, sickness and accident, ac-cident, and the enactment of a law doing do-ing away with the voting of proxies upon stock aud making it necessary for the stockholders themselves to "vote, either in person or by mail. Labor a Commodity. Mr. Baboon, who said it was his opinion that labor was a commodity like copper, and that wages were governed by the law of supply aud demand, advocated the L-statdishment of profit-sharing plans among the employees of large corporations or companies, lie said ne believed a large percentage of labor and social unrest was caused by the plants being governed not by persons upon the ground, but by a board of directors sitting in an of fire build ing in some other city, usually New York. These directors, he asserted", were nearly always representatives of banking houses which had financed the corporations, corpora-tions, fn this connection he discussed the. , affairs of trie American Woolen company. Capitalists, he said, have no grudge against labor. They simply are - indifferent to it. I "Do you believe that the law of ?up-1 ?up-1 ply and demand should apply to labor I as it does to step), copper or coal ? ' ' ; asked Commissioner I.t.-nnon. I " Yes,' ' replied Mr. Babson. an-t ! that 's where so many social workers j make a mistake. ' I Thank God they are making mis-Stakes," mis-Stakes," said Commissioner Lenrmn. 1 Mr. Babson then launched info a din-j din-j cushion of the business of Hnrv Ford of Detroit. ' ' Ford s plan, ' ' he said. ' ' is not h profit-sharing one in the true sense of the word. He is simply playioj the game for labor instead of for capita I. In ten vears. he has told rre, he will establish a profit-soaring plan. Whoever Who-ever makes the protits in his plant shall share in those profits.' Walsh Questions Untermyer. Mr. Wahh questioned Mr. ' T.'nt'T- myer about the Colorado Fuel & Iron company. "It has been testified," the conimis-ioner( conimis-ioner( ?aid, "that a certain large financial interest did not control the company, because it held only -1U per 'jent of th &toek. ' ' "That is preposterous, ' ' replied hr witness. "The stock is listed on tut.' exchange, and many shares are iu the hands of brokers. It would be ueees-sary ueees-sary for a large financial interest to have but 10 per cent of the sfoek. ; V, hen it wants to do anything with the corporation it just sends around to the ; brokers and gets the proxies-" ' Mr. Tnterrnyer said it was rare when J directnrw running a corporation I nun New York knew anything about the I business. "rHfc-y are just figureheads," he said. Rlerring again to the four : loundat ions und'T in vc-tigation and to ( his declaration that th'-y should operate ; under federal charter, Mr. Fnterin vet said: ' ' They should be given a perpetual ehart?r There should be a limit to their KUe. They should not be per-! per-! rn irtcd to accumulate income. There I should be fmvern mental re presentation j when tli" time romes fur replacing the I pre-cnt triiKt-?. ' ' Government Regulation. The labor unions, Mr. Cntermer paid, can rcver rejinv labor condition. "What, w; u-"., ' ' he assert ei( " pt governmental r--yulaf.if)n. ' ' The wi'm's then went info ft dibits. 1 sioji of life iNFiirai',e companies. There js one company, he said, v,l,j"h han '),-;0';0,0tj0 '),-;0';0,0tj0 policyholders. To hor an -e-. j tioii would eont. h;.lf a million dollar. ' ' ''f-ause of tlie c r. r , ' ' the w it ness d'-rlc, "it ip impoL -nble to liold a n 'elation at, whi-h ollo'er could be ! rt-L'ularlv rletod. Of con: :e, as the ! rompaay is a mutual organization, a i i-ohcyiioldcr ean vit- if lie nppf-arn t 1 I regular me'-t in 'j.. lint, no bod v expert s the policyholders to appear. The l u t. ' e, ft h ou Id he represented in the 'ii a.nii genii-nt of tins con corn it' the in- t' rcq'.n of yl arc to be eared for.'' : W it NeVH ex pec ted to appear tomorrow tomor-row cie Ida M. TarhH), .JoJ:n Mitehell, I rorrner pn-" id '-nt of the C oiled M i n-j n-j Wij rl' ers fjf A me lieu, n nd ;-,rr-v.r uta ! live David .f. Deivis of Maryland. |