Show ly I 1 r S AND TALKS ON SCHOOLS lie thinks congress over stepped the constitution when the examination now going on before judge anderson opened saturday morning W G van home was called and gave a list of what he said were the mottoes on banners carried in tha procession pro cassion that followed D H wells I 1 did notice tho american ilag there did not see one in the procession at the mooting the sp cakars wore P D richards D H wells and john taylor dickson said that arthur wild wanted to change his testimony to say that when he said flags were in his procession ho did not mean american blaes van horn said the speeches were commendatory of DH wells for preferring to go to the penitentiary for contempt rather than reveal the endowment ceremonies said he had a judgment in bishops court between parties for a sum of money legrande iburg said that it was a doctrine of the mormon church that the members should bettle their difficulties by the arbitration of bishops courts rather than s ta aw there was no effort or intent to force judgment those who did not comply were might be in extreme cases excommunication dr james E talmage was called by the defense he testified I 1 am principal of the day saints college in salt lake city was form braly member of the brigham young academy in provo acted in that capacity four years attended school there five years have studied at the lehigh university pennsylvania and tho john hopkins baltimore la the latter day saints college we give instruction in theology tha same i as in other branches our theological classes study the bible and other church works the principles of the I 1 new testament are taught there the tew testament is a text book of daily chebook the Book of mormon and doc irine and covenants also sermons are not referred to the con of the united states is taught we teach thattie atthe th constitution is inspire dand of all enman documents approaches nearest to tion it is taught that it ie the foundation of the government of tho united states and must be revered we teach celestial marriage but not plural marriage we teach that celestial is a contract for both time and eternity while the civil marriage only binds people in this life we teach that marriage is a religious as well as a civil contract wo never say anything about polygamy there may have been a question asked about it ant I 1 recall no instance the B Y academy follows the same rule as does our college both are sustained by voluntary donation from members of the church I 1 have been a member of the church for eighteen years we teach mans free agency as a part of our course we teach that mans free agency is paramount that it has hot been interfered with by the creator and should not be by any power we teach that mans future depends on his course in thia life that ho might by the exercise of his own agency show his nature and preferences wa also teach that the kingdom of god is to be an outgrowth of the church of christ that it is not hero ant that it will bo established and that we should pray for it when it is established christ will be its king we lay that it will come as the bible says but the time no man knows not even tho angels in heaven wo have never taught anything contrary to the laws of the land it is a part of our teachings that people should prepare themselves to be good citizens the teachings in the B Y academy and in our own college have been approved by the authorities of the church that is the plan of to dickson we teach that celestial marriage is distinct from plural marriage the meaning of plural marriage is expressed and the meaning of celestial marriage is explained wo teach that celestial marriage may be entered into in the relation that it is different from ordinary marriage in that it is available in eternity we teach the pupils to obey all the laws of tho united states we mention no laws specially we have not had any questions upon the laws relating to polygamy that I 1 can recall we also teach obedience to the revelations of god as a religious duty we teach that the constitution guarantees religious freedom we teach students to obey the laws we also teach them that they have the privilege of obeying god in their religion I 1 believe in the revelation of plural marriage and that if the constitution had been conformed to there have been no law against it I 1 teach the pupils what I 1 believe but not all chati believe wo also explain that the revelations do not require viola tion of law I 1 think that the statutes against bigamy are constitutional I 1 dont think plural marriage is charac by the features of bigamy aa a crime I 1 think congress Cen gress sought to suppress plural marriages and I 1 think they overstepped over stepped the constitution in tho school we teach the free agency of men we also teach that it is proper to seek counsel from the best sources we have not taught that it is wrong to rebel against the priesthood we have taught that mambort of the church should obey the authority of the priesthood but they may disobey if they choose I 1 think we should obey the instructions of the president of the church in his official capacity in relation to the church the subject of oba priesthood ignot dia cussed any thing 1 do riot believe but ido not force on the pupils all that I 1 believe are may topics that are not referred to idour I nour college the ata toia fourteen to thirty years of age 1 am twenty seven years old in regard to the kingdom of god I 1 donot understand der stand that it is set up at all I 1 understand it is the mission of this church to prepare for the kingdom of gadbut to do so that it is not necea sary for them to exercise temporal authority I 1 have read the sermons cf the leaders of the not seen any declarations that the kingdom of god ia set ap without modifications ficat ions of those declarations I 1 understand der stand that when the principles of righteousness taught by the church shall prevail then the kingdom will be established but in the sense of a kingdom it is the teaching that it is not sot ap to the court when christ comes and reigns then the kingdom will be established cannot bo a kingdom yet because to dickson the president of the church 13 not the representative of t nu king in temporal matters I 1 believe that when christ comes ho will hold control in temporal matters and all men who work righteousness will aid in control that the priesthood holds no control in temporal matters but in spiritual matters I 1 do not believe that the priesthood have the right to control men in all temporal matters I 1 dont think the president has a right to direct absolutely iu all temporal matters A doctrine to that effect is foreign to my understanding I 1 never have understood that they have a right to dictate in all matters I 1 have studied the teachings of the authorities of the church to baskin we teach the pupils that there is a distinction between blural and celestial marriage we ea ignato no revelation as the one on polygamy we havo one on the eternity of the marriage covenant we teach that the revelations in the doctrine and covenants are divine and this includes the revelation on celestial marriage plural marriages is not given as a command to the church but celestial marriage is plural marriages in the church are celestial marriages but celestial marriage sare not all plural marriages I 1 believe that a deception or fraud is a necessary characteristic of bigamy I 1 understand der stand there was in 1843 against a man marrying two wives unless he practiced fraud J understand now thai there are laws against polygamy in existence I 1 do not consider that our system includes bigamy in the school wo have not given any instruction as to whether plural marriage should or should not ba practiced to the court in the highest grade in the school these questions may come up we say L at celestial marriage is binding for eternity being consummated by divine authority a we dont explain what plural marriage is but I 1 understand it to mean plurality of wives we teach that marriage can be performed as a religious ceremony or as a civil contract we dont mention plural marriage either one way or another I 1 am qualified to teach plural marriage we do not understand that teaching that plural marriage is corrupting the morals of the pupils because we do not teach there has never been any comparison between tho laws of the government and the doctrines of the church I 1 believe plural marriage to be a proper condition but have given no instruction upon I 1 think a young man educated in college would believe that a law which binds his conscience is unconstitutional but he would not believe that such a law was not binding I 1 would not advise the breaking of any law for I 1 consider a law binding until it is annulled i to dickson I 1 believe the law is unconstitutional but that it is binding I 1 have never taught the children that plural marriage is right because I 1 have not taught it at all the priesthood do not now control in temporal matters I 1 have never heard it taught that plural marriage of itself will exalt anyone believe celestial marriage is essential to exaltation to lie grand youna celestial marriage is one consummated between a man and a woman that will be of avail in eternity as well ag in this life this is the revelation on marriage I 1 understand that polygamy is not obligatory but is permissive I 1 think celestial marriage is obligatory for exaltation that ie an eternal union in marriage of husband and wife the revelation has been read in school we teach that marriage for eternity is necessary we have never taught that polygamy is necessary we have been that the priesthood control in tern matters we teach that ad cioe in temporal matters from thosa who understand them is proper and the came as in spiritual matters I 1 think there must be a king to a kingdom I 1 think christ will be the king of the kingdom of god and that there will be no other ruler As to the proportion of polygamists in utah I 1 would say there is not to exceed one ia thirty anong the adult male numbers of the church to dickson I 1 think there aro less then two hundred thousand people in the territory do not know how many gentiles thera are to baskin isaid if I 1 needed medical advise I 1 would ask one qualified to give it baskin Is laying on of hands for the healing of the sick a doctrine of the church the court ruled that this was improper to mr young when a man is a polygamist it is usually but a short time before his neighbors know of it I 1 dont think it possible to keep it secret long I 1 know the monogamists have the elective franchise and poly do not take the oath some people do not take it from conscientious scruples A man who does not take it is usually spotted ohavo dover taken aay stops to prosecute polygamists I 1 consider my duecy to mind my own business to the court I 1 know prominent men in the church who are not foists I 1 do not understand that all abo apostles are brigham youn john deoro Q cannon J H smith 0 W penrose polygamists 1 understand that apostles H J grant john W tay lo randAH lund are not mitts did yon dover hear that heberd grant had a second wife now in england dr talmage I 1 never did legrand young stated that he had an important witness who had not arrived and asked that the caso be continued morning to civo time for farther testimony the opposing attorney objected but the court after considerable argument finally conceded the request |