Show IVINS SPAT squabble bet between e on democratic leaders in th tho e convention in tho the constitutional convention on oil wednesday delegate ivins denounced ills his fellow dem democrats 0 brats for their caucus proposition to insist that women could vote vole on tho the rat fi cation of the constitution he protested that the move was for political effect and lacked sense mr replied hotly for tile tho democracy mo cracy and the squab blo was so 80 noteworthy that we herewith reproduce a verbatim report of what both men said mr ivings assault mr tie ivins mr were it not for ill ift e renow nil made by tho the gentlemen f om se k lahe who has haa just juc spoken mr vat Va cailan ilan an thai chat this question willich Is before thit convention tit nt lie lim been and decided upon by it certain political party by which atch I 1 Appin end that ile IK refers refer to the minority upon lie he floor of thin house I 1 should not noi have voled 0 ahr joe us question but bill I 1 dill did f foci cel th ihna I 1 I 1 it would lie be Im improper for mt at lo 10 loaft As t 1 lo 10 p tollow clint to paw pass without my own boshion upon uil al auca aes ues t lorl I 1 to witly tay that if c caucus locus hj has been aee I 1 I 1 held hot I 1 was waa not acarl of it sold and did dd not participate in it W that I 1 have riot not committed in favor of the motion toll v obed by the gentleman from sill salt mk and fand pm not now tit in favor of it 11 my reasons I 1 wish to lo state atalo briefly they arp are these gentlemen Reni lemen lit in tho the nral first place I 1 chat tile the provisions of the tucker oct act a certain CIA cab or of duale and al aa fer ferrone wone cit 11 of this his acri gitary u were ere dis franchised now the aft lit in s fp ilon rilon 2 provides n means by rhth hleb the so tar far ns its it to 11 certain 1 w class oc mule clotena zens in this tory may be removed remo veSI slid uie tile right to oaf athe granted to thorn hut but 1 I 1 can find and nothing in ihli act that thai leads me to lo believe that th op or 3 tion of the gudmunds tucker act N I 1 no not now in rull full force to ao far as the women of this ihla territory are arc concerned concer and I 1 cannot construe these words in the bourth section ecklon of this net act to mean anything el elic ele e anu into that the present wl Villo roi of this territory which Is the proposed state stale ot of with a abc to entitled to vote vole and no others now while 1 tile it la IS true that very able cell clemen have expressed their opinion upon this queston and that it la Is different to in my opinion anzi ana I 1 profess TIO no great creat legal kanoti to it ledge it alto also a fact that very eminent legal gentlemen in this city have have expressed ag their opinion upon the lines upon which mine Is in expressed and have said bald to 0 me just as emphatically om AH it has ha boon been said on the other hand that if they be permitted to vote vole it would ho lie improper and not in accordance alt iha conditions or of enabling act I 1 blont believe thai chat it was waa ever fon on tom plated it if ll it bad A 0 proviso provision would have heen made clearly tn in in sn ebli tog act by which that condition could 1 have been 1 made 1 do all and I 1 submit that lf it it was th int intention e n tion of the men in iho he do dafid this bill that the women of this territory tar in coso civin they should be enfranchised en t ranch wd or proposed to be b enfranchised by this constitution should vote on tho the constitution they made A bungling J job it of it jt it ought onetis to havo have been made alion plain I 1 dont believe it wa was i ever contemplated or even intended and I 1 shall ow against the proposition mr Th oreion oregon I 1 would mould alk like to fiat the gentlemen if A female could bo be elected cleate d at the th nrc election in this state for state Off loos 1 lie frins fi anano no fir it ir why liy not mr ivins Tic cause ohp he Is id riot not eligible to election until after that constitution shall he be approve 1 delther to vote pirjo noll hold olti ce and the very amr that faiq a arto 6 not hold office indicates that she could not net vote I 1 don dont t fl believe elleve it Is good law aw tho the gentleman may be it a lawyer hut but tho the by Po ot hesli heals upon chion th this awo whole question qu catlon la Is basei Is stong I 1 believe lid e it IS in intended for political purposes aea and I 1 want to say eay to ou here that if I 1 hanew that by vot 1 inai n g f for 0 r thi proposition it would result 1 in I 1 vl victory c t ory f sor for my political party in tho the acu nex t I 1 would vote agal against tit it tAp plaue I 1 I 1 dont wont want a vote vole it fr wo we cairol acet it honestly I 1 dont want this question to be submitted to the separately and after trie tile election Is 14 over to have this whole question dragged I 1 nto into the courts and have such another me scene e I 1 in 7 the ta territory r of utah as an we c had 4 t brough the h e complications that resulted bjorn tho the operations opera ilono of tile the utah comila comal slon bloo in the last campaign I 1 wani ant to avoid that litt litigation gation tho the reply of mr thurman Thun rian mr fr Thur thurman manSIr president president I 1 would not ask ank to lo be heard on this question F ion if it hail had riot not been for tho the very extraordinary speech of the gont lentan from wahler Wahl va AhIl fr 9 toll lon county mr ivins I 1 admit that ho he has a higher degree of spartan integrity perhaps than I 1 have I 1 act 1 ehas ba a fight to take lake lilly any position that thai hn he on this noor floor I 1 accord that to him and I 1 claim it for macef but when then ll 11 hi goes out 0 of I 1 I 1 jila way to brand hla big whole party with ich dashon nty ly and charcas them ills doing Joli iff sonie LhIng simply for or political effect in to evoke avol app applause laune from hla his appo bents then mr president I 1 fel feel like aristade aristae to my feet anil and it it was a remarkable statement 1 I the from washington I 1 ia ivins I 1 believe that the party to lo ihl which e it I 1 blong b long are playing a game there lm OL bing patriotic p atri OtIc la in all they aro are dolner dola he here r it I 1 B a I itic trick it 11 13 0 n scheme an and 1 A am afan 1 it no now gentlemen I 1 nm am mur chat at my friend should want to parado parade him bin virtue and charko charae every armo crat on this floor who may disagree with hirm him practically with being dishonorable in 1 this movement ond and I 1 say bar that ft lien hen a man charges that I 1 do anything on oil a port norl oils matter like tills this in framin sr the elie constitution ution merely lor for ill political atlea I 1 abc acc 1 I 1 way may it Is charging mo me it dishonor onor ana I 1 coment it and tho the fact that it come coman from a gentleman in standing a mn trvin whose character ti 14 aarl makes make the ho accusation sit all ill the morn more ncr ioui nod and I 1 ailse ir if for two no at othur lit r purpose Bc to rant tito ilin insinuation and ask him when by what mean and how ho entered into the consciences of all hla hill political frien friendie dit here and found out lut just what ahat their beliefs and their in tent t 10 lo fonn ns wre r e I 1 no 0 o paret hiu ham ever bien bi en hept from rare 3 him and nd as aa tar far as I 1 am concerned in rny my notion on tills matter I 1 havo have ro no beell c from you WI why y talk lalk about caucuses I 1 may SAY aay that if int ou caucuses caucused Caucus ed on this floor this morning quietly getting cettl off i V with fib sotir your previous question qu ailon to nhut off debate tie and to throttle mn men who iro are hero standing handing up for what they believe to bo be t ing tile the from Wazil ington says say it was uns for political effect C there has been too much or of that kind of talk on this floor ab about things being for or political effect it mono came up on oil this very question of woman auf aralio in the begin outing r Gentl entler ornen nen or of tile majority roan man utter man rono aromia and now 1 admitted that what ito hn had dono done at provo wax waa for political effect and now tho the gentleman from washington following wing wine in that thai line threshing that same eimo old conica and charges charlca hit his on this hoor floor vath doing something tam aim ply for political effect |