Show Tlir GUNNISON VUJEY By ELMO SCOTT WATSON ASSENGERS! The Railroads Love Yen So reads the headline ill a remit issm a popular weekly magazine and the theme of the arm!- thus titlil is the present attitude of the iuhmds mi u UtlUls these United States Lower rates faster hIkIu1 ltlMi coaches and si trains in dining cars special iMursmib cheaper meals r ire offering us now to halt the decline n pmuu ummi learned that competition "have ulutlui it mus tm th er they Railroads from automobiles airplanes or lu alt with by being nicer to the customer " In other words: the public be pleas d' Hpw —different from their attitude an Bgo when lung’’ spoke ts all this half a century arrogant “railroad for all of them and Uttered the phrase which has been inseparably linked with his family name ever since “The public be damned'” he inorted scornfully but contrary to popular belief it was not old VanCornelius (“Commodore”) derbilt who said that The man who did say It was his son and the pubH Vanderbilt of Its prejudice lic because and men of Street Wall against great wealth never forgot that it had once been damned by a Vanderbilt VanSince old "Commodore” derbilt was much more famous than his son William it is only H CORNELIUS VANDERBILT Never Said “The Public Be Damned P Even Though Many Believe He Did Americans natural perhaps that the phrase should have been tacked upon him and perpetuated in the long list of our “popular beliefs which are wrong” That historic phrase was uttered in an Interview with newspaper men in October 1882 And just as there has been confusion as to the identity of the Vanderbilt who uttered it so has there been confusion — and controversy —over the circumstances under which it was said No less than three versions of the story all agreeing in some details but difhave been tcld fering in others and retold many times To give the true version based upon authoritative sources and contemporary evidence is the purpose of this article Three Versions acAs for the contradictory counts of this incident which have been published one of them says that it took place at an important meeting of railroad men in St Louis at which William H Vanderbilt then president of the New York Central was the leading figure When the conference broke reup a crowd of newspaper porters forced their way into the room to know and demanded what had been done Vanderbilt acting as spokesman for the railway men answered that nothing was yet to be given out A reporter whose identity is not established in this version tried to force the railway magnate to issue some statement “Mr Vanderbilt the public wants to know end is entitled to know” he said rewhereupon Vanderbilt plied wrathfully “O the pub-li- e ' ' be damned!” Another version the places scene in the Grand Pacific hotel in Chicago The Pennsylvania railroad had recently put on a fast deluxe train between Chicago and the East It was the first of its kind and created some "in of Clarence ensatlon P Dresser a e reporter (so this account identifies him) jearned that William H Vender-nu- t was stopping at the Grand Pacific and called upon him there Dresser asked what the New York Central was going to ®o to meet this new competition the Pennsylvania Vanderbilt replied that he did not know that his company was fotog to do anything Won’t the public demand sked Dresser 0 the public be damned!” was the reply Still a third version of the yarn as the same reporter but the stances under which he otained his Interview are ay that while Van- ilt was eating dinner in his Pnvate car which had been slde- in the Michigan Central yards in Chicago Dresser forced way Jnto the car and de uru rf 1 i SHERMAN JOHN DICKINSON the Famous The Reporter Who Cot Interview Damned1 “Public Be to them because we have tried again do not pay We have different and again to get the but they road to give them up j course of will run them and run them we a they is long the same must do were many After that there about freight other questions emwaxes of railroad union depot ployees a proposed condition of the hi ar etc— and upon their WT Chlcaeo hurried to porter next days edistories for the Hr Tllr'U ‘"It rilroad om reanon the saw fit to editor of the Tribune story In one Sherman’ change V UTAH j (V X77L manded nil intei iew Vanderbilt replied that le was Imsy but the reporter was insistent "Well’ replied the ratlioad sit down at the other president end of the until ai hae finished dinner ail will talk with ou But insisted Diessi it is getting late and h will not readi the ofliee in time The pubhe — ” At this point Vanderbilt lntei- b e bun ' The public rupte damned1 You get out of here1” So Diesse-out" and the “got next morning Vanderbilt’s retort was heralded far and wide through the emlurnns of the Clue ago newspapers Two Reporters The true si r of this incident contains some of the elements of the second ind third versions quoted alme It is true that Clarence P Dresser was present at the interview when Vanderbilt made his historic reply but he was not the reporter who asked the question which provoked it That reporter was John Dickinson Sherman who at the time of his death in 1926 was feature writer for Western Newspaper Union and who once told the writer of this article the complete story of that famous interview In 1882 Sherman was Hyde Park correspondent for the Chicago Tribune and his friend Clarence P Dresser was Hyde Park correspondent for the City Press an organization which supplied routine news to most of the Learning Chicago newspapers that Vanderbilt was en route to Chicago in a special train these on two enterprising reporters Saturday night October 7 persuaded the crew of a freight train to let them ride on it to Michigan City Ind’ When the Vanderbilt special arrived the next day and stopped at Michigan City for a few minutes to change engines they went aboard After the train was well on its way they succeeded In getting car Into Vanderbilt’s private where he sat alone after his Sunday dinner Explaining the reason for their intrusion they asked permission to ride with him to Chicago and ask him some questions He agreed to this and the interview began It led finally to this question which was put to him by Sherman: “Do your limited express trains pay or do you run them for the accommodation of the public?" “Accommodation of the public? The public be damned!” “We run replied Vanderbilt “for NEWS GUNNISON 4 v mum aX THE EMPIRE STATE EXPRESS LOCOMOTIVE The New York Central ‘’Flyer” Which Made Railroad History at the Turn of the Century Instead of impoitant particular giving Vanderbilt’s famous reply the story in that pappr varbatim quoted him as saying “AccomNonmodation of the public' sense' They do not pay either We have tiled again and again to get the different roads to give them up but they will run them and of course as long as they run them we must do (he same " But if this editor sensing the “dynamite” in the railroad king’s was trying to protect answer him from "the consequences of his he failed words intemperate Other Chicago papers using the account City Press (Dresser’s) had not been so of the interview charitable Typical of their handling of th story was Victor Chicago Daily News which displayed the story prominently on page one under the headline1 Mr W II VANDERBILT The Magnate Talks Plainly lie Deprecates the “Nickel Plate" —Railroads Are Not Run for the Dear Public And Dresser’s version of the famous question and answer was this: “Does your limited express pay?" “No not a bit of it We only run it because we are forced to do so by the action of the It Pennsylvania doesn’t pay expenses We would abandon it if it was not for our keeping its train competitor on "But don’t you run it for the public benefit?" “The public be d—dl What does the public care for the railroads except to get as much out of them for as small a consideration as possible I don’t take any stock in this silly for nonsense about working anybody's good but our own because we are not When we make a move we do it because it is our interest to do so not because we expect to do somebody else some good Of course we like to do everything possible for the benefit but in general of humanity when we do we first see that we are benefiting ourselves Railroads are not run on sentiment but on business principles and to pay and I don't mean to be egotistic when I say that the roads which I have had anything to do with have generally paid pretty well" Vanderbilt's Denial When a report of the Interview to New York was telegraphed the New York Times printed it to and editorially recommended the people that they go to Vanderbilt’s house and tack placards on it bearing the words: "Damn the public” Realizing the blunder that he had made Vanderbilt resorted to the expedient since used by so many public men to save face when there is an unfavorable reaction to one of their utterances He declared that he had been misquoted by the rebeen porters “I have frequently York interviewed by the New never knows I and everyone press use the language or expressions attributed to me by1 the restateporters” he said in formal ment disavowing the words athim to tributed Even though he did disavow using the “language or expres-ia sions” attributed to him there available other evidence of his contemptuous attitude toward the The Chicago Times inpublic stead of using Dresser’ reportto sent one of its own reporters interview the railroad king at his hotel the next day and in its report he is quoted as saying: “Railroads are not run for the Incto pay public benefit but identally we may benefit humandivto earn is ity but the aim idends” while printing News But the edithis denial on page one said rises to torially: "Mr Vanderbilt interview the explain and deny with him published In the Chicago not papers a few days ago Itis ahould be disstrange that he himself when he gusted even with reread hit profane egotisticalhe did marks on paper But that railroad say what was credited to him is beyond all question his own pointed denial to the contrary There were two notwithstanding reporters present at the interview both report it substantially 'alike and their notes agree almost exactly The fact is Mr Vanderbilt is ij the habit of revising his interviews before they appear in print and it is very evident that he had better insist fuupon such a privilege in the ture although it was ’’not accorded him in this instance A day or two later the Chicago Times printed in its “Gotham Gossip” dispatches from New York the following “In regard to Vanderbilt’s extraordinary damnation of the public in Chicago but one opinion prevails m Wall Street Everyone firmly believes that he did use the words attributed to him and every one declares him to be a crazy loon for having done so ‘Everyone knows' he said in his letter of denial 'that I never use such language as attributed But ask to me by the reporter' any of his friends and they will W H it’s once: ‘Why tell you at all over!’ ” Words” Fatal “Four Newspaper paragraphers made wisecracks about “the four fatal words” and editorial denunciation of his statement became so that the Cincinnati widespread Gazette finally declared: “It is surprising to say the least that the sayings of a man like Vanderbilt should so disturb the world In general and country editors in particular His Chicago interview amounts to nothing at The conets collar and cuff candidates for your trasting yoke is unusually effecgood on any ticket the sleeves are full and to work and tive and there is an air of graceful you will win the vote of any group sophistication about the design not however critical with these fetchin a garment ao pracing frocks especially designed for often found women who sew at home Cor- tical and useful Send for size Medium rectly styled accurately designed Small (bust Size Medium or Large and cut they combine smartness and four solution the yards and offer requires with utility of 35 Inch material to many wardrobe problems Bell the Send Fall Barbara for ensem1966 the jacket Pattern Pattern Book containing 100 ble is a smooth flattering model easy to make patterns as slimming as it is smart and fashions for children Exclusive The graceful neckserviceable women and matrons Send line and jabot conceal those extra young for your copy fifteen cents and waistline the pounda 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Syndicate— WNU Serein crepe 0 to put your best foot forward and make a successful appearance Designed for sizes 36 38 40 42 44 46 48 and 50 size 40 requires four and yards of 84 inch fabric 1874 the beguiling Pattern house frock features a panelled yoke with the yoke and sleeves cut in one There is gathered fulness in the waist a shawl collar and one or two patch pockets for Easily your household trinkets Use your Coleman hnndrade of place put together with the aid of the la wbera a ordinary ln Instruction detailed I oaaleea Um It for tra fteMark choral hunt guide this is a morning frock flatting or oa any which will survive the day with Ing It torn night Job honors The pattern is available in night Into da y Wind or enow can’t put sizes 14 16 18 20 32 34 38 38 raia hoot Up to MO 18 44 Size 40 42 and requires Keroeen four and yards of 39 inch lodala IbaflMitnada THREE Put your “machine” IS Coleman Hantlo LANTERN fabric Pattern W H VANDERBILT The Railroad President Who Uttered the "Four Fatal Words " amock simple 1800 the is formed with pieces including graceful Just eight the pock Tien aa low a 1446 our local dealer eaa apply yon Send fc FkEB i olden THE COtFMAN LAMP AND 8TOVB CO Pep WITZ Wichita Kaas Chicago Philadelphia P4 to Angel— Calif i61721 all and the public is giving both Gigantic Palm Grove Mr Vanderbilt and his silly talk Elche in Spain boasts one of altogether too much prominence groves in the largest If he were a great railway manestimated at the world ager or a great financier or if he from 80000 variously The 110000 trees to of understood the first principles fruitrbearing palms are pollenated the science of transportation by hand men scaling the trunks some weight might be attached INSTRUCTION by hoisting themselves with a rope But he is to his utterances tied loosely around the tree and nothing of the kind From a tiller leaves of the waists Many their common a and soil of the very a O BPKCIAL TCITION are blanched and sold throughout tiller at that he sprang at on Spain for Palm Sunday and as Approved by your Stato Barber Board bound to the top round of wealth Um lather Cafec III lepat IL tall taka M Stab in protection against lightning But in point of experience x ways of trade and commerce and in the elements of greatness he stopped short off in the subWILLIAMS CLUYAS CUP By THE cellar of progress philanthropy liberality and brothgenerosity erly ' love The public condemn him for doing and laying outlandish things when he can not help doing and aaying them Hq “ knows no better A week later the Tribune carried this significant news story: “W II Vanderbilt and party returned from their Western trip yesterday afternoon and put up ‘ftoiiibifrbotcop (tPPOWM 9 tfwrtsttcunenjp SUD1S6 CPf t the Grand Pacific hotel where cunt op n ytofnf wropfiv eoufvtafiNa virM Mr1 McrkrP 5HfU(Ki& M 01 wnn if MeCSR orViitt iooKOi Overnight they remained McfatR isdvtd COP ftUh SfH 1b WXrf eowfo spat! H't interto HOanw mrroi be refused Vanderbilt h WO & ChMNUC was® iriOHirt M rf KlfPlB 8ntu MtAPS viewed again as his experience in this respect when he passed through here on hi Western trip seemed to have taught him the lesson that ’speech Is Silver but silence is golden”’! That was more than W years ago but to this day mention of the name Vanderbilt brings to the mind of the average AmeriHiWD tCiim IQ prom fb at so or can the “four fatal words” which wMDtft a cpv ev cup mo sim err Iff tt Town Cj) f one of them once uttered— “The newt hm 0tB CUPMD All Four The - 1ANt damned!" public ewnpate fnA( cdp a supped ppm public be Of PU CaZt‘ZQ w finr dUf it seems like the elephant never it Without Accipon swu if n I liknteH h lyatiMa forgets! ert:i trs LErji c’nzEra Q U tftera S'ea paper Uni" t |